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AIBU?

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Original poster

to wonder why men are almost always the non-resident parent

507 replies

womblesofwestminster · 15/12/2013 19:57

Yes, I know I could win an award for most clueless person, but please humour me.

Why is it that when parents separate, it's almost always the mother that the children live with and who has to do the bulk of the mundane parts of the childcare? While daddy gets to pay a cash sum each week, pursue his own interests most of the time and then be Disney the rest of the time.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 15/12/2013 23:49

Yes we did!

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 15/12/2013 23:50

I wasn't disputing there are lots of fathers who do not pay child maintenance, to clarify. I was genuinely interested in where the figures came from.

This figure is from the CSA's quarterly report for Sep 2013.

"717,400 cases were paying maintenance out of 881,100 cases with a child
maintenance liability. This represents a maintenance outcome rate of 81.4% and
remains the same as June 2013"

Did the figure quoted earlier take into account that not all NRPs are seen to have a liability to pay maintenance? For example if they are students or not earning?

Mumallthetime · 15/12/2013 23:50

I was told only last week that not entitled to Legal Aid for mediation because of the maintenance I receive - is that incorrect?

MummySantaHoHoHo · 15/12/2013 23:51

because men get treated like shit on divorce, because women breast feed and so end up as main carers, because some men are decent and wont turf their (ex) wives out post affair so end up out of the family home through no fault of their own, because some men are tossers who dont care about their children, because 50/50 is seen by many as unsettling for children

all sorts of reasons

perfectstorm · 15/12/2013 23:52

Mumallthetime the law on benefits and maintenance changed in 2010, it isn't meant to be included in any assessment anymore. Though I can't see the Coalition leaving it like that for long, tbh. If your tax credits etc are still being assessed that way then the assessment is mistaken - appeal, and try to have the claim backdated? You're entitled to keep every penny of the child support now, on top of the tax credit etc entitlements, I believe.

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 15/12/2013 23:53

That's true Mumallthetime - maintenance is taken into account for legal aid. But not other benefits.

MummySantaHoHoHo · 15/12/2013 23:53

dhs exw as an NRP paid zero, zilch, nada, nothing, she also complained when I didnt thank her sufficiently for washing her own sons school uniform, some NRPs are just crap, no matter what sex they are

Mumallthetime · 15/12/2013 23:55

Did the figure quoted earlier take into account that not all NRPs are seen to have a liability to pay maintenance? For example if they are students or not earning?

Not being liable to pay maintenance is not generally considered a reason not to pay though, is it?

My experience is that 'Dad' is expected to continue to financially support his DCs at a level that maintains their standard of living regardless of his income.

Xmasbaby11 · 15/12/2013 23:56

It depends on the couple. These are all generalisations. But most women do more childcare than men, so it stands to reason they would get more custody.

If DH and I split, even though we both work ft, I spend more time with DD than him, and I'm sure he would be happy for me to have DD more than 50% as long as we had a reasonable agreement.

MummySantaHoHoHo · 15/12/2013 23:56

and FWIW I had the situation described in the OP with my ex, except I always thought he had the raw end of the deal, I got to wake up with our beautiful son every day, I got the pleasure of raising him.

I would have died a million small deaths if I had had to live away from him when he was tiny, I dont see being the RP as a bad thing at all.

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot · 15/12/2013 23:58

Mumallthetime - it is hoped that yes, a father would give what he could to support his children, but there are certain circumstances that the CSA will award a nil assessment, like I said when a NRP is a student or not earning or claiming anything.

If a child was living in a household with Dad earning £50,000 a year, parents split and Dad lost his job, how could he ensure he maintains the standard of living on his Job Seekers allowance. He cannot give what he doesn't have.

BuffyxSummers · 15/12/2013 23:59

Maybe not morally mumallthetime but legally I think. If ex goes back to university, he won't have to pay anything towards dd.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 00:00

my experience is that if dad earns little or nothing. that is what you get.

perfectstorm · 16/12/2013 00:01

Legal Aid isn't strictly speaking a benefit, is it? No clue on that, though I think you need to be on an incredibly low income to benefit these days, even for the mediation element. You should definitely ask, though - did you complete an online calculation? Check out the Ministry of Justice website, there's likely to be one on there.

It's horrible, actually. So many children will be let down by their parents being unable to access courts at all.

Mumallthetime · 16/12/2013 00:04

there are certain circumstances that the CSA will award a nil assessment, like I said when a NRP is a student or not earning or claiming anything

I agree - but currently, the general opinion amongst RP (certainly the majority of those who express one) is that CSA is the minimum, any NRP who only pays that is failing his DCs and that a NRP does not have the luxury of being a student or unemployed - they should take whatever work is available.

I have seen significant support for a proposal that all NRP, regardless of income, should be assessed as receiving an income of at least a full time national minimum wage salary. I believe that if it were to happen, it will only increase the number of Dads who are relegated to the role described in the OP.

perfectstorm · 16/12/2013 00:05

That's true Mumallthetime - maintenance is taken into account for legal aid. But not other benefits.

That's really miserable. Though not surprising, given it's a Coalition-created policy. I fully expect them to return maintenance to a source of income again if re-elected. It was the reason the CSA was first set up under Thatcher, actually - to reduce the benefit bill.

grumpyoldbat · 16/12/2013 00:31

IME single mums whose partners have left them are treated by society as scummy little shits. The now NRP is seen as an angelic hero for seeing their child so much as an hour a week. So I find it hard to buy the argument that men always get the shit end of the deal. Not trying to argue that some men haven't been treated badly btw.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 00:37

yes grumpyoldbat the medal pinning that sometimes happens when dads do what they are supposed to do is a bit tiresome.

TheBigJessie · 16/12/2013 00:47

Not addressing the present discussion, but although I don't have personal experience of child custody discussions/fights, I think I'd be aiming for 50/50! Ever since I had children, I have been very cynical about the apparent multitude of women who just block contact for no reason. Some/lots of them may be wrong about the reason, and seeing their ex as worse than he is out of anger, but that's not really the same as malicious manipulation. It's honest misjudgement.

I love my children. They are lovely and cute. The idea of a world without their existence makes me sob. But they are lively, happy, exhausting cute things.

I also like sleep, the occasional lie-in, being able to have a break MNing without interruption, being able to study, read and to have long luxurious baths! I looked after them completely on my own for a fortnight while husband was away, and I'm still holding it over him In the event of our split, I can see no way in hell that I would stop him taking them for the weekend, after a long 5 days of single parenthood, unless I believed he was a danger to them or unfit to care for them. In fact, I would be on the phone telling him it was his turn by Friday!

Darkesteyes · 16/12/2013 00:50

YY Amber. Single mums are looked down on and told by the Fail and their ilk that they "should have kept their legs closed" while single dads with custody are hero worshipped.

IneedAsockamnesty · 16/12/2013 01:15

Amber,

Did you know that with the £5 assessment they take the £5 and devide it by all the mothers so you may even only end up with a few pence.

It never ceases to amaze me as to how many self employed nrp's end up with either a nil or the £5 even when they have nice lifestyles no debts no additional children, and the variation system is rubbish.

I was never really fussed other than making a point but it took 5 years for the csa to do anything about the fraud my ex was committing.

On a side note I had a interesting chat with a nrp a few days ago he was doing the poor me what a hateful bitch my ex is she won't let me blah blah thing,turned out he had a conviction for chucking her out of a moving car nearly killing her when she was pregnant and the court had ordered no contact even indirect due to violence in the contact centre.

I think its much easier to blame the woman and for some reason people tend to find that easy to belive that it is to admit your actually a really shit person who should not go within 50 yards of a child.

I've lost count of the amount who blame the ex but in RL don't really want to bother but obviously won't admit that to anybody because whilst its socially ok to just not bother its not socially ok to admit out loud you cant be bothered so I will confess when I hear women in a new relationship say he wants to see his kids but she won't let him I tend to think give it a few years and you may find out why.
And any mention of enforced use of a contact centre or protection order or anything like that is enough to make me think yep shite git of a dad.

Obviously my opinion is a based on the things I see not all men or all women and te things I see are very different to the things more sheltered people may see.

AmberLeaf · 16/12/2013 01:52

yeah sock, I am more familiar with the way they divvy up that £5 than I would like! it's just not worth it.

I know men who lie to the point of believing themselves about the reasons why they don't get to see their children.

slagging off their exes and moaning about not seeing their kids when I know that the reasons are because of their actions. if you say a lie enough you make it a reality I suppose.

I've seen it so that I am sceptical every time.

Grennie · 16/12/2013 02:43

Courts tend to make the resident parent the one who already does the majority of the parenting. That tends to be women.

justabystander · 16/12/2013 02:59

pragmatically, just go for what makes your life easy.
would you not want your child to have an easy life.
set an example.

Santaspelvicfloor · 16/12/2013 05:31

I would like to think that the majority of men would want 50/50 and the majority of parents would see financial responsibility for bringing up DC a joint venture

Before my divorce I was confident that xH would see his DC as much as possible. He was unlikely to do 50/50 but I was sure he would pay CM

Upon divorce he agreed to all of the above amicably.

Within 4 months he stopped paying and decided to fight to be the NRP. As court action loomed to hold him to the consent order he packed in a well paid career he had held for 20yrs. The courts cannot order money if the NRP is not earning...

He persuaded one DC to live with him. (The same DD who sat on my sofa last night and told me she knows she was being manipulated). That lasted months in which time I did voluntarily give him CM despite having two DC myself and receiving none from him....

When DD came back home (horrendously traumatic time for all) xH stopped all contact with DC for 4 months. I phoned him and pleaded with him to see one because it was so distressing for her.

He pays no CM. His contact is minimal. He works a few hours a week now. I work full time with full residency

I would like to say my experience was shocking, horrific and highly unusual. Unfortunately I think it's fairly common

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