To not understand common attitudes to disposable personal hygiene products?

[hooochycoo]

I'm confronted by this again and again on MN, and I confess I don't understand why it's OK to justify using disposable nappies, wet wipes, sanitary protection etc? Why is it OK to add so much rubbish to the world on the justification of convenience when there are alternatives that are still easy but generate less or no waste? Use a flannel, use a moon up, put/hold your baby regularly over a toilet/ potty, use modern easy quick drying cloth nappies. Why's it OK to recoil in horror at the hippyness of such things? But it's ok to continue buying disposable rubbish from huge corporations and throw them into landfill? Apart from an argument of "each to their own", aibu to not get it?

There was one post that was ignored, but valid. The lady said she wanted to use reuseable nappies, but could not afford the money all in one go. Now then, surely there needs to be some help given there?

I was a relatively young first time mum, and when I told my midwife I wanted to use cloth nappies (well, not cloth but it's one with a washable liner, you keep the outer bit and they're really cute), she laughed at me and said I'd never last. I was young, so was DH and he looked at me and said 'maybe we should just buy disposables like everyone else; maybe she's right, she sees mums and their babies every day, I don't want you to struggle...' So I didn't. The same thing happened to me with bf; I was expressing and giving it to DS because he wouldn't latch and NO bastard would help me. When I told her I was doing this she sneered and said 'well that won't last!'

Families need to have these choices supported and made viable. It isn't about laziness. And often, you'll start out and carry on that way for subsequent children, because you've had your confidence knocked.

And for women on this thread who are pregnant and thinking 'I'm not sure, I might do cloth nappies, I might not...' Now they've seen some of the judgement and laziness comments, how do you think they'll feel? They'll think 'oh, well maybe I am lazy and uneducated. I'll just stick to what I know, and what all my friends are doing and not think about it any more'.

If this is something you really care about and are passionate about, then how about going to your local children's centre and offering to do a talk on Eco friendly choices you can make for pregnant ladies?

I do already, i've volunteered for my local cloth nappy advocacy organisation.

I bought all my cloth nappies second hand off www.clothnappytree.com for about fifty quid two babies ago. i bought bum genius as they dry very quickly and are very easy. my nursery even uses them without issue. i'll probably sell the ones have haven't gone too bobbly on again after and give the others to friends. that makes it very cheap.

Agree with ziggie. Disposables costs loads, but it's in chunks every week.

MN tells me that councils used to run schemes dor this, but not any more.

Mind you, I also think we need more provision of outdoor drying space. And to stop people lighting bonfires

Ziggie - little lambs do an all in one nappy. Currently £50 for 10 nappies new. Most people can surely afford £50 after 9 months of saving? That's 80p a week. If they can't then how can they afford to buy anything else for baby. ie disposables for 2 years/ clothes etc. admittedly more nappies saves washing so often but they could be added to later. eBay/ free cycle etc often have them for less/ free also. If everyone used them then they would actually be cheaper and easier avaliable as everyone would know people who have them and a hue amount would be around to swap/ exchange/ buy
Our local council ( in London), offers x4 reusable nappies for free, plus nappy accessories ie bin. So there are initiatives there in many areas

What about the mums who haven't heard of those organisations? Most people are just about aware of their local children's centre, not relatively small online organisations. Cloth nappies need to sell in supermarkets, not at specific stores. Knowledge is power.

IMO, there needs to be a whole section of supermarkets dedicated to Eco friendly stuff. Until that happens, it's not viable for the majority of people.

Most people aren't on mumsnet.

And incentives need to extend outside of London/big cities. I live in deepest darkest Cornwall where this doesn't happen.

I had no idea there was a second hand market for cloth nappies; genuinely. It never crossed my mind. I'm sure that makes me utterly stupid.

YANBU to make decisions to use these things yourself, but YABU to make such a fuss of others using it. Not everyone has the same lifestyle. Reusable products simply would not work for a lot of mothers. Lucky you if you have the time and are close enough to home to be washing and rewashing nappies etc., but that really isn't the case for a lot of mothers.

Ziggie- I see your point. However I honestly do not know anyone who doesn't have any access to the Internet Nowdays ( except my grandmother!). Even if you need help, most people can ask a friend/ family/ professional/ centres etc for help ( I know not 100% but most)

Going on google and typing in reusable nappy will give you 101 sites. Each one explains pros and cons of each type ie quick drying/ better overnight absorbency/ cheap/ etc

They should start selling more variety in stores though as many only go to mothercare for everything. ( they do now sell but I think only 1 type)

A little research of anything helps/ saves. I realised through this myself that I didn't need to buy every bouncer/ jumper/ baby swing as stores said and could wait and see if we would need first. Saved hundreds

The little lambs one gets you 6 one size nappies for £45, which is good value but I think you'd need more than 6. I remember my DS being quite happy to go through 10 a day at his peak

I'm not trying to shoot you down, but new is going to be about £130ish to get you up and running, which is great.

Obviously there's the second hand market, but I think a lot of people lack confidence and they think 'but what if it doesn't work for me?' £130 is a lot for some people to gamble on something they might not get along with.

It is also so easy for a new mum to lose confidence. So easy. When things start to go awry, she'll go 'fuck it', and go for the most convenient option.

Not only that, but reusable nappies can be quite confusing; some come with liners, some you wash the whole thing, some have inserts, some have pockets, and of course you can go for terry...
That's quite confusing. I don't know anyone personally who used cloth nappies; it really is something I've only found commonly on mumsnet.

I needed it made easy; if you Google cloth nappies; the first page comes up with sites selling different ones, with different options (mentioned above), there's a mumsnet link to the review page, but there is no Wikipedia link, no YouTube videos... That's what I look for.

Also I really didn't like the idea of second-hand or library nappies on pfb's bum. I wouldn't west second-hand underwear and a nappy which has been soiled in the past is imo worse than that.

I mean these ones. 10 for £50. Lasts birth-potty

www.thenappylady.co.uk/birth-to-potty-nappies/little-lamb-onesize-osfa-v2.html

Do you change nappies right next to the bin? And anyway, it's a bit of poo. My daughter regularly shat up her back as a newborn, I had to get over it pretty quickly

My children are well past the nappy stage now, but I would have a nappy sack right next to me when I did a change. Straight in the bag, tied securely and then the bin. No big deal and yes, it is just a 'bit of poo' so why does it need flushing away as if toxic waste? Ive got 3 children and have dealt with enough bodily fluids over the years, I've been shat, peed and puked on, I'm certainly not precious about it.

Whether we need to or not is the point we're discussing. I just assumed that everyone put poo in the toilet - clearly I was mistaken!

As I said, I have never seen or heard of any parent doing this.

From the pampers website
Waste removal
As the Pampers bag recommends, you'll want to dispose of the bowel movements in the toilet Then just roll the diaper into its backsheet, using the tape or fasteners to keep it closed, and dispose of it in your household rubbish
It seems that's how they are intended to be used

'Want to', well I don't/didn't want to and saw no reason to, so I didn't, along with every other parent Ive ever known. If anyone else does want to, that is their call.

Landfill or flushed back into the ecosystem? is there really much difference?

I'll get shot down for this, but I actually am staggered how the cloth nappy advocates seem fine about obsessively collecting fashionable designs for wraps, different liners, different bits and bobs, and so on, boasting about their green credentials as they go. It seems another excuse to spend money on materialist crap, another excuse for indulgence, only feeling smug as they go, as thought the whole green argument legitimises their behaviour. If you really care about environmental issues, two dozen terry towel squares and a pair of plastic pants was the traditional way, and a lot less complicated and expensive than the carry on with posh packaged versions of these things in middle class shops. Basically the choice comes down to towels on the arse or paper on the arse, and ultimately as I said before the impact on the planet is surprisingly similar either way. You'd all be much better off having a conversation about buying cheap Chinese goods and the impact that has on sustainability.

My husband initially discussed it with childless SIL, and informed me that second-hand cloth nappies were disgusting. I looked like this:

He saw the prices and agreed to second-hand ones being bought a few months later!

I must admit, if I were going to use reusables, I wouldn't fancy second hand ones.

I used second hand clothes for my children, but underwear would have to be new.

artandco Aaah I was on a different website that didn't do that particular offer!

And at boffin, plastic pants?! Plastic?? How very dare you.

I used some second hand clothes, not all by a long shot.

So should nobody have any children then? Save the planet, kill off the species?

That is the logical conclusion if you consider reducing environmental impact a priority that must override all others. In fact, if one is really determined to be "greener than thou", one should commit suicide, to eliminate one's future eco footprint. Even that isn't the furtherest you can go, how about killing as many people as you can before adding your own body to the pile, you get credit for eliminating their future contribution as well.

(Legal disclaimer for the hard-of-thinking: I'm not actually advocating anyone killing anyone.)

Yeah, but FraidyCat, would you put yourself in the black bin or green bin upon your own demise??

I spent a heck of a lot of time discussing cloth nappies on other forums. I never heard of anyone who washed at 90 degrees. Because that's daft. Actually, no my nanny did once. And we had to throw all the wraps away that went in that wash. We obviously would never have done it on purpose. Ditto tumble dryers, my MiL tumble dried my LL wraps and they didn't work thereafter. I suppose I could get Ipsos Mori to do me a nice representative survey, but I think the fact that most cloth nappies are totally destroyed by boil washing should serve as 'proof'.

The advisory board had two representatives from sposie manufacturers and two from cloth nappies manufacturers, but only one of the cloth nappy representatives actually went more than once.

And no, I think the EA is funded just fine thank you, but I don't think they are completely neutral. You are naturally going to be biased towards someone who represents part of your income stream and is one of your key stakeholders.

I think both of the reports are pretty poorly structured and from an unrepresentative sample. I don't think the project board had the expertise to set out the parameters and the assumptions. The baseline is just plain wrong in my experience (and I don't just hang around environmental types), and even the high efficiency isn't as efficient as me, or a lot of the people I know. I just don't think it's a very good report. Even the updated version. And it's such a cop out for the lazy and uneducated who don't want to use cloth nappies. You think they're gross, that's FINE. But don't claim that you're being more environmentally friendly. I'm not right now, and I'm ok with that. I'm being lazy.

Well I work full time.

I am out of the house around 8am and not back until close to 7pm.

There is no way on this godly earth that I am spending any more time on housework than I already am.

None.

I don't care if you think that is lazy. I only have a limited amount of hours on this earth and I don't choose to use them washing the damn nappies.

I've never heard of a mooncup outside of mn, I might try those if I came upon them.

Wilt- I don't wash the nappies by hand! When I/ dh got in about 7pm we just put pulled mesh bag out of nappy bin, through whole lot in machine and forgot about for 2 hrs whilst we ate dinner / sorted kids. Then hung up over a over door drying rack ( flat so little space). Every 2/3 days. We aren't a martyrs. We work like everyone does 8-7 ish out house. 5mins isn't hard to find. 1 hour for me to walk to shop, find nappies in shop, and walk back is harder time to find

If people want to they can. If you don't then don't, but don't make excuses

I feel a bit guilty about not having used cloth nappies. I also think they seem nice and comfy on a baby's bottom. But I dodn't get into them early and I really can't be doing with even more laundry tbh.[blish]
Moon ups. I dunno. Can someone talk me not it? Where does one even get the blasted things? Are they good? Really?