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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to be unable to choose a school??

72 replies

QueenofKelsingra · 12/12/2013 10:56

Ok, so I'm posting here for traffic. Just after people's gut reactions. Trying to choose between 2 primary schools for DS1 (we also have DTs to follow him in 2 years time). Which would you choose based on the following main points:

School 1

Walking distance
he's at the on site pre-school
separate class for each year group
swimming pool on site
190 pupils in school
27-32 pupils in each class
non-teaching head (who is also away a lot doing Ofsted training)
male/female/young/older teachers
Ofsted Good
more 'common sense' option

School 2

2 miles by car (no pavements so have to drive)
no pre-school
R has own class, then mixed yr 1/2, 3/4, 5/6
80 pupils in school
R class has 9 pupils, mixed classes 18-24
teaching head
mostly female teachers and all older.
Ofsted Outstanding
is an academy
curriculum set up and content looked better

gut reactions just based on these facts please!

OP posts:
Hermione123 · 12/12/2013 11:30

Interesting, my gut reaction is 2 but I went to a small primary school. I do think close is not at all to be sniffed at though.

neddle · 12/12/2013 11:35

Queen your convenience can be helpful to your well being.
I'm in my 8th year of walking children to school (and I have at least 10 more to go!!!). If I had to get them all in the car and drive 2 miles each time I needed to go to school, I think I would be a wreck by now.

I've had days where I've dropped 2 at school, then 1 at preschool in the morning. Out again for lunchtime pickup. Out again to get 1 from school, then back for a disco, after school club for another, then back to pick the disco one up (and I was 8 months pregnant).

Factor in a car in the garage, roadworks, closed roads for maintenance with detours. Driving to school every day is stressful.

WhereIsMyHat · 12/12/2013 11:41

I'd be wary of old ofsted reports, our good with outstanding features school was put into special measures 6 months after my son started there.

I'd also struggle with the choice you have OP as I can see benefits to both. Being able to walk to school is a huge benefit but 'd also be tempted by the small class sizes. A small school here is a two form entry so 60 kids as opposed to a three form, 90 child entry!

ReallyTired · 12/12/2013 11:46

I think that having a head doing OFSTED training is a good way of keeping a school out of special measures. The head will understand what OFSTED are looking for.

Dd's school was good with "outstanding features" and now is "inadequate". What OFSTED wants depends very much who is in power. Under labour happy children was more important than academic results. Now OFSTED are foccused on progress. Personally I think there should be a balance.

snowed · 12/12/2013 11:48

School 1

Badmumof3 · 12/12/2013 11:57

I'd go with what your heart is telling you. I chose on the basis of closeness initially. That school had mixed year classes and after forming friendships in R, dd was separated in yr1 and had to start again. She was never happy there. Bullying was a problem and poor teaching. I moved her at the beginning of yr2 to a school 2 miles away. Just about walkable. Classes are 28-30 but single year and they stay in the same class from reception. Both schools were Ofsted good but newer school is far and above better. I wish I'd followed my heart to start with, rather than my practical head. Dd is now 11 and has started at secondary but my younger 2 are both there and very happy. Good luck. It's a big decision.

MrsKitty · 12/12/2013 11:58

School 1.

My DS is currently in our small village school in year 2. He's been with the same teacher since reception, in a mixed R/Y1/Y2 class, and whilst it has been okay for him, he's happy etc, I do feel like he's missed out on opportunities that other schools are able to offer. I have a wibble at least once a term as to whether I should move him to a school elsewhere (which would involve a 2.5 mile drive). And something that's causing me a fair amount of anguish right now is that whilst DS's personality has suited the school up to now, DD is completely different and thrives on big friendship groups which is going to obviously prove difficult at such a small school....

steppemum · 12/12/2013 11:59

Ok, this is why local school has advantages

today
8:30 school drop off
2:50 class assembly to watch
3:20 school pick up
5:00 help at KS1 disco with dd2
5;45 dh walks ds and dd1 up to school for their disco, and takes dd2 home
6:00 I walk home
6:30 collect ds and dd1 from their disco.

This sort of thing is regular, end of term plays, assemblies, nativities, carols, disco, after school club, christmas market.
Not just Christmas either.
When dd2 was preschooler I had preschool drop off and pick up between school drop off and pick up.
And if you get involved in the PTA.....

ds is year 6, he makes his own way to and from school, and meets friends (who all live within half a mile) after school. He loves the independence.

If the school was no good, then of course it is worth it to travel, but being part of the local community, and living round the corner do make for a very good work life balance for you and the kids.

CreamyCooler · 12/12/2013 11:59

School 1. It's lovely to be able to walk to a school and then join the local cubs, football teams with friends. Children will be able to knock for each other when they are older and walk to school together. I'd rule out school number 2 because of the mixed year groups. Also I'd be thinking about the move to a much larger secondary school from such a tiny school.

QueenofKelsingra · 12/12/2013 12:02

if I said that School 2 has 100% pupils achieving Level 4 and above in all areas at KS2 against School 1 that has 61% - 83% getting level 4 across the assessed areas would that have an impact on the decision?

OP posts:
AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 12/12/2013 12:04

School 1, for a whole bunch of reasons:

  • walking distance! This is not to be underestimated.
  • 9 is just too small for a class, really.
  • mixed classes can be problematic.
  • mix of teachers sounds better.
QueenofKelsingra · 12/12/2013 12:05

school 2 is also mid 50s in the countrywide league table - school 1 isn't within the top 164 schools

OP posts:
FiscalCliffRocksThisTown · 12/12/2013 12:06

I think there are two things you have not mentioned, which are the things I would look out for:

How do you like the head?

What is the school ethos?

I think the HT and teachers are what makes a good school good.

CreamyCooler · 12/12/2013 12:10

Are you in the catchment area for both schools?

ClayDavis · 12/12/2013 12:13

I think I'd have chosen school 2 anyway based on what you have already said. Non-teaching head wouldn't worry me. One that was always out of the school would, particularly if you didn't warm to him much. What was your gut instinct when you visited the two schools?

QueenofKelsingra · 12/12/2013 12:15

fiscal I preferred the head at school 2 - possibly because she is a teaching head and all the children we passed on the tour spoke to her happily. at school 1 none of the kids would even say hello to her!

what do you mean by 'ethos'? like their mission statement or something?

creamy catchement for school 1, school 2 is undersubscribed so no problem.

OP posts:
CreamyCooler · 12/12/2013 12:20

Did you also look into the percentage of children who reach level 5 at the end of KS2?

ClayDavis · 12/12/2013 12:22

at school 1 none of the kids would even say hello to her!

That swings it firmly in the direction of school 2 for me. Completely outweighs the walking to school thing. And probably the fact that there's only 9 reception, which does worry me a bit.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 12/12/2013 12:25

I don't like the fact that the children at school 1 wouldn't talk to the head. Hmm. That does complicate things.

I don't suppose there's a school 3, is there?

ContentedSidewinder · 12/12/2013 12:26

Love your user name by the way Smile

My children attend an outstanding primary school, it has be inspected since they tightened all the areas and is still outstanding and has been for years. For 2013 it had 89% achieving level 4 2012 it had 83%. They had a a glitch year and the result was awful so look at lots of years, not just one.

We had to live close enough to walk to it because it was cut throat, even taking in 90 pupils per year! The head teacher didn't teach and was an Ofsted inspector himself. They had a lot of TAs and parent volunteers which helps make it the school it is due to the sheer amount of support given to pupils.

I used to volunteer in school so typically I would be in say year 4, lowest set for literacy and the teacher would be teaching a small table of 6 children, the TA was doing guided reading with another 6 children at a table, I would either listen to 6 children read or give them support when performing their writing tasks. It works having that level of adults in one class where you help pupils do their best in a lesson.

We have now moved to be closer to an outstanding secondary, ds1 is in year 6. I have to drive 3 miles to school every day and have done for the last 3 years. It is a nightmare when one of them stays behind for an after school club. I arrive home with one child, feed them a snack and then we are back in the car to drive to school. Again.

Choose school number 1, for all the reasons given by others.

Check out the number of TAs. In our school they have 3 TAs per year group, which would work out at one per class but in later years they are more concentrated in the lower sets. We have old and young teachers, SCIT students (training) and a lot of male teachers too, I think 7. It isn't just about results, the whole experience of trips, visitors to school, friendships and friendships formed because you walk to school with the same people day in day out.

ContentedSidewinder · 12/12/2013 12:28

Maybe the head at school 1 is strict and the pupils fear her (not such a bad thing) after all they are top of the disciplinary chain Grin

ContentedSidewinder · 12/12/2013 12:30

I went to a tiny primary, 6 girls in my class and 10 boys, secondary was a huge shock to me.

CatrionaA · 12/12/2013 12:31

The DTs might find it easier to develop their own interests/friendship groups in the larger school in years to come.

CreamyCooler · 12/12/2013 12:31

If you went with school no 2 would your DT's get places? Why is it under subscribed if it's so good? Would the choice of primary effect what secondary school you DC would go to?

3asAbird · 12/12/2013 12:33

Feel for you op also doing dreaded school application.

I have 1 in school already and heres the problems we faced.

Dd1 had done nursery sinnce she was 11months very happy and confident had lots mates.

She started preschool term after 3rd birthday picked small preschool same site as smallish/well med sized primary.

At preschool she had lots of mates.

we looked t primary next door main feeder school was 45intake so split classes 15odd ones based out dob so 30 r kids in reception and oldest 15 in r1 with 15youngest year 1s sue to where dd1s dob feb she wasent going to be a in split class so dident let that concern us too much

the head was nice, osfted good 10mins walk, lovely grounds and facilities next to preschool for dd2.

we chose school 1 22of her little mates joined her fro prescool so the remailing 23 were new to school from other preschools.

reception a few of her mates at preschool were older so different class.
was job share which dident thrill me but dd 1 seemed happy,

cue year 1 the split her best freind was younger 15 and instead being in year 1 class with her she was in r1 that freindship never recovered was lost. A lot of people in her class were cliquey so she knew them but they paired of and dd got caught in freindship triangle.
she also struggledin class and did not seem as confident.

we tried to get her additional help and explain problems dd was having but no joy.

The school was dowgraded ofsted can change very quickly so dont rely on that alone.

Only school in area had spaces was very small village school 20per year mixed classes apart from reception which stand alone.
husband was worried about freindship pool but he dident have to be boys and girls mixed more unlike old school. she has some close freinds from year 2 this year as was mixed year 1 /2class last year and confidence has boosted, academically shes flying, lots extra curricular. they dot have huge outdoor space or ict suite but they make most of everything they have.

She gets 1 to one help twice week with ta for last year.
they celebrate no academic things, the schools better socio and ethinic mix despte being coe shes learnt so much more.

downside is its 1.2miles way sometimes upto hours walk or 15min drive.

we ended up disrupting dd2s preschool shes on her 2nd preschool to be nearer dd1s new school.

dd2 and dd3 currently have no sibling link at eldest school which worries and upsets me.

There are days im tired its wet and col but moment i get to school path and look at the school feel happy and so lucky dd1 goes there. she comes out happy and chatty other day no tears like there used to be. its liek one little family really special and unique be gutted if younger 2 dont go there.

But I do realise that my younger 2different personalitys and dd2 probably be ok in bigger school shes adapted well to her 2nd preschoolbut doing loads of tours nothing can compare to small school eldest goes to only next week entire school is off to pantomine all 140 of them and in ks2 playground she mixes with the years 4, 5 and 6 so find the year groups mingle more than bugger schools who tend to stci to their year group.

put the one you like best 1st.

Im have mad selection but i know i be happy if dd2 went to either of my 3choices,