to be saddened by DDs' nursery's approach to 'stranger danger'

[seafoodudon]

Genuinely not sure about this one. I received an email from nursery yesterday informing me that this year Santa would only drop presents off at the Christmas party and wouldn't stay to talk to the children. This is because the nursery feel they cannot encourage the children to speak to a stranger. My reaction is that this is sad/ridiculous and counter-intuitive as:
a) to follow their logic they are saying it's ok to accept presents from a stranger but not speak to them?!
and b) I hate the trope that it's not acceptable for children to speak to strangers. Surely we should be explaining that it's not ok for them to go off with a stranger. Personally, I think it's nice to be encouraging children to have a little bit of independence from a really early age - e.g. I would always encourage my 2 year old to hand over the money for her magazine, or hand her books to the librarian to be checked out. It's just impossible to function in society without speaking to strangers and I don't understand why this rule is imposed on small children.
HOWEVER, DH thinks I am being totally U about this and that it's a reasonable stance for nursery to take (and more generally that children should not speak to strangers).
I'm interested in i) whether anyone else has come across this issue with their child's nursery/school/playgroup and Santa, and ii) AIBU?

So when a new teacher starts the new teacher will not be able to speak to them then because being aa a stranger they could be a danger.

Completely ridiculous

Stranger danger is a very odd policy really.

My then five year old dd got seperate from her dgm and cousin and aunt on a visit to lego land. She was calm, and approached a father with children who took her to a member of staff. My mother (who had care of her) on the other hand was frantic!

Going by stranger danger dd would have not spoken to anyone and would have been in a state and very upset.

Santa is being introduced to the children. He is not a stranger. I trust that the nursery will have vetted him.

I would definitely send an e-mail op!

Your dh was making you feel like a highly irresponsible parent??
I'd be more affronted at that than the obvious lunacy of the nursery's stance.

I have nothing new to add to the actual conversation, but OP, I salute you for your carefully distinct bulleting of a) your reactions and ii) your questions. :)

Find a better place to educate your child, they sound limited.

molly - we just have very different views on approaching risk. I think I am sensible and he is massively ott a lot of the time re risk. He thinks he is sensible and I am ridiculously lax/irresponsible in my approach. We knew this before having children (I rock climb/ski/surf etc, he is petrified by the idea of any of those activities). It's really not a big deal and we generally compromise when it comes to the kids.

it's daft and actually teaches children nothing.

it's like banning sweets or TV. this teaches children nothing about moderation or self control do when they are old enough to go to the shops they pig out or watch endless tv at friends houses. daft.

children need to understand that it's what strangers SAY that can indicate a danger to them so for instance if a child is lost to approach a group of strangers or go into a big shop or cafe. if someone then days come with me in my car and we will look for mummy they don't go. that person might be dangerous.
if a person says ok wait here with me while I phone the police then that person is probably nice. iucwim.

just saying never talk to strangers is lazy teaching.

Giraffes - why thank you!

Having Santa visit the nursery is a whole different ball game to taking your kids rock climbing / surfing / skiing; in terms of "risk".
I still think your dh is an arse.

Quote - we're really pleased with the nursery otherwise, and it is only 2 afternoons a week, so I'm really not concerned that DDs will be developmentally stunted. It's the fact that we're so happy with the place otherwise that is leading to my uncertainty over responding to the email at all.

molly - he's really not. He is a fab dad (and husband) who just wants the best for his DDs, and to keep them safe. I want the same. We just have different approaches to what that means. I was using the outdoor sports egs to illustrate the fact that our perception of, and attitude to, risk is different in pretty much all aspects of life. I also think that when we discuss these things from different approaches it tends to polarize our opinions and we start to use increasingly ridiculous arguments to back up our position, which makes the divide in opinion seem even greater than it is.

When the two of us discussed the issue properly we were in fact on entirely the same page - he would also encourage DD to respond politely if an old lady in the PO queue said she was wearing a pretty coat, or a waitress asked her what she'd like to drink. His take on this is 'she should know not to talk to strangers, but that it's ok when she's with a responsible adult', my take is 'she should know it's ok to talk to strangers, but never ok to go off with them AND she is not yet 3 so just never would be speaking to a stranger without a responsible adult present'. So same reaction in the actual situation, just different ways of rationalising it.

I would e-mail because, as a PP has said, this isn't really about Santa at all. It's about the nursery sending incorrect messages about personal safety to children. If they are doing it in this context there's a chance that they might be teaching it explicitly in other contexts to the older children.

I think I'd start by praising the nursery for their standard of care/how much your children love it etc and then phrase it as having a concern and setting out the reasons why you are concerned rather that go in all guns blazing.

Oh, and I should make it clear that DH wouldn't stop the girls seeing Santa, and wouldn't have minded at all if Santa was at the party. He just thinks that it is reasonable for nursery to have concerns and to have issued this policy, and that it would not be reasonable for me to raise concerns. He also thinks the present/talking issue is consistent, as they are just reducing Santa to a postman, and it's ok for children to receive parcels from the postman.

YANBU. I think it is worth an email, because I think it needs to be questioned.

I would be worried that a ch

bugger!! that a child care setting had such weak child protection policies.

my childminder setting has much more robust and coherent policies to TEACH children about keeping themselves safe.

it's an Ofsted requirement. if they are teaching children to not talk to strangers at all that's in no way teaching them to he safe. most abuse occurs from people the child knows.

Yabu, that's very OTT. Do they never have any other visitors that come in? When my ddswere at nursery, they had santa, but they also used to have people come in with animals, a magician, people from the emergency services etc .

I'm sure (?!) it is a head office policy, and not through our specific nursery

You mean that somebody who doesn't work with children has had a stupid idea. Welcome to corporate childcare! I'm pretty certain that head office bods are judged on the amount of ideas and initiatives they have rather than whether or not they're bollocks.
A person who comes in with staff to see the children is not a "stranger". They're a guest. To be consistent the nursery would also have to ban vets, nurses, police officers, etc. Santa wouldn't really need a CRB as he would never be alone with children. He (or she) (don't ask!) will be being watched by staff, and possibly a room full of parents, the whole time.

The head office needs lots of letters. Who are they?

Seems a bit pointless having Santa visit at all if he's just going to nip in and dump off the presents, then run off in case a little child tries to talk to him. Talk about sucking the joy out of something!

I once turned up to drop.ds and Chinese off at cubs at church hall. No cubs there except one rather forlorn 7 year old. Managed to find out from church warden ,who miraculously was there we were supposed to be at another hall.

Small boy would not speak to me despite son and chum whom he knew. Miraculously he knew his telephone number and called his Mum. Mum had dropped him off without checking the rest of the pack were there.

Mum wouldn't let me drive the five minutes with all 3 boys to the correct hall. I had to wait until she collected him. If we hadn't got her on the phone we'd all have been stuck there until the normal collection time as I couldn't have left him and he simply refused to speak to me.

Aarg bloody phone changed chum to Chinese.

" this year Santa would only drop presents off at the Christmas party and wouldn't stay to talk to the children. This is because the nursery feel they cannot encourage the children to speak to a stranger. "

I've worked in different family settings, my DD works in a Nursery at present.

I wonder if someone has ballsed up and realised last minute a CRB checked Santa wasn't budgeted for, or the paperwork wasn't done.

So they've had to run to a Discount shop, buy a cheap suit, or lent one and is having a random male relative drop the presents off.

This is what happened one year at a Children's Crntre that I was in. We forgot "Colin" our all round handyman etc was on holiday when the Christmas party was on and had to come up with an alternative, fast.

If not, then words need to be had, because the explanation is ridiculous.

I get the argument that they shouldn't talk to strangers because once they talk to someone a few times they won't consider them a stranger anymore.

But there is a difference between Santa (a magical man and an invited guest at nursery) and a stranger in the park. Their new teacher will be a stranger, can they talk to her? What about their friends mum? Where does it stop !?

YANBU

Oh for crying out loud that is bonkers seriously what about the children who think santa A STRANGER will be coming into their homes Christmas eve, Most school nursery santas can be CRB checked I hope you tut at the nursery