To think that a pupil premium should be paid for children who live in home where none of the parents have qualifications

[ReallyTired]

I think that the education of the parents has a more significant outcome on a child's attainment than income. (Especially as many working poor don't have much more money than those on benefits.)

I feel that children who live in households where no adult has five GCSEs or equivalent should get extra support at school. Often these families aren't entitled to benefits because the parents do work so currently don't get the pupil premium.

It is harder for uneducated parents to support their children with homework than someone with a degree. Better eduated mothers are better at getting their children's needs met as they are often more articulate. For example making sure that statemented child gets what they are legally entitled to. (Getting a child assesed by an ed pych so that the child's dyslexia is spotted.)

Unskilled people often do physically hard work for very long hours for very little money. I believe that a child with unskilled working parents is at a major disadvantage as their parents are time poor as well as cash poor.

You're talking out of your arsehole, therefore YABU.

Get funding for schools useing 'traveller' children, after removing traveller education services who actually worked direct and had a clue about who was who, what outcomes would be good and what ones bad, and why some school ideas are unnaceptable and always will be? No.

Btw Capsium, my kids could too, but I didn't sit and actively teach them either. What I did teach them was to be interested in the things around them and I answered the questions they asked. I limited time in front of a TV, took them to different places and read to them. They didn't get computers in their rooms until they were into their teens. It's not rocket science, just responsible parenting. The schools can't take responsibility for what happens, or doesn't happen at home.

Haven't read the whole thread.

But wanted to say I have a degree (although pretty useless!) and my dp has only 2 gcses.
Yet he is much more intelligent than myself, in fact he is one of the most intelligent people I know. He is extremely knowledgable and will most likely be more able to help our dd with her schoolwork than I will be.

So yabu.

I'm actually pretty annoyed that you think not having a degree means you are thick.

How bloody condescending.

Every child can do with some help with school stuff from home. Especially early primary schoolers.

I don't think there should be a pupil premium in the first place. I think children should all be treated equally at school. That means everything one child has access to, within the school environment, is available to everyone else.

I think schools just want a get out clause for poor standards.

Children with genuine SEN are failed time after time after time by schools! Funding which has been fought for, often through the courts is misappropriated.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1862438-Teachers-do-not-adhere-to-Statemented-1-to-1-support-do-not-believe-in-sub-levels-make-APP-assessments-up-How-much-of-what-parents-are-told-by-schools-about-teaching-is-a-box-ticking-exercise

The above thread shows this only too clearly. So funding for the schools is itself is clearly not the answer.

SEN is not the parent's fault either. Yet children with SEN may not be able to hold a knife and fork, dress easily or find reading and writing a simple straightforward process either.

IMO the Curriculum is too prescriptive. The teaching should be tailored to the child not some attainment target. However blame shifting will not change this.

Are we talking specifically about SEN here? I didn't think we were? I think the OP's post was more about increasing school support for all children from homes where the educational level was low.

SEN is whole different bathful of fish. I have a child with Asperger's who has had his issues with school support and I am well aware that there are deficiencies in the system. I don't that SENs are the issue with the majority of the pupils I work with though.

silly idea op. you couldn't police this anyway.

can't remember my GCSE grades actually as they are so insignificant in later life.

some of the daftest people I know and the most unsupportive parents have degrees.

think that SENs are the issue

The pint I was making prefer is that schools have grossly misappropriated targeted Statemented funding, so what guarantee is there that schools would actually spend any funding gained for deprivation, based on parents qualifications, in any way that is meaningful for the children concerned?

^point. Typo.

Prefer - I understand where you are coming from. I am a volunteer at my dcs school and work with some upper ks2 children who are levelled at nc level 2 for reading and maths. All white working class boys. In most cases there is a total lack of aspiration and motivation to even try. I asked one boy what he wanted to do when he grew up and he just shrugged another said that he wanted to go to art school as he is good at art. I asked how he would apply if he couldnt read to fill out the forms and he just said he would get someone to do it for him. It did not seem to bother him that he would have to do this and it may be a barrier for him in the future. It is very sad. I believe that the real problems lie in the curriculum at KS1 level. More time needs to be devoted to teaching the children the basics of reading, writing and basic maths. From what I have seen if they havent mastered the basics at KS1 then the fast pace of the curriculum in KS2 sees the gap forever widening. If you dont have the support of parents at home that value the education system and encourage the children to make the most of it then this coupled with the lack of time the school has to devote to these children will see them forever failing.

I should add that I say all of this as someone who grew up in the 70s and 80s on what would be deemed as a deprived council estate. I am the only one of the many children I grew up with that went onto gain o levels and A levels and ended up with a good career. The only thing that set me apart from those other children was that my parents wanted me to do well at school because they wanted me to have more than they ever had and they saw education as a way to achieve this. Maybe the schools need to do more to show children that they can be whatever they want to be if they work at it.

I certainly haven't seen that be true in my (Scottish) area Capsium! the kids with statements do get the support attached to them. What is true though, is that the behaviour of some of the other children can detract from the positive tone of the classroom and the attention of the Teachers/TA's is misappropriated into keeping them under some sort of control. And so we return to (mainstream) children learning boundaries and listening skills at home...

Preferthedogtothekids if 12 year olds are starting high school unable to read or write, then yes, their primary schools have failed them.

Unquestionably.

Not many kids in primary school would have a clue how to apply to art school or know what they want to be when they grow up.

I asked how he would apply if he couldnt read to fill out the forms and he just said he would get someone to do it for him

You actually asked a child that?

If I heard a parent who was meant to be helping children say something like that, I would put a complaint in. Wrong on so many levels.

It did not seem to bother him that he would have to do this and it may be a barrier for him in the future

He's key stage 2 FGS!

No prefer we return to class teachers not being able to manage their class behaviour effectively, for whatever reason. If a TA is employed as a 1 to 1, this is what they should be doing, the class teacher should manage class behaviour. If the child who had funding for the 1 to 1 moved schools, what would that class teacher do?

Really usual. I know lots of ks2 children who could tell you what they want to be when they grow up. My dd yr 5 wants to be an architect and my ds yr 3 a builder. They Will have one happy mummy if that comes off as they can design and build me a house. I am not saying that the children will end up doing this asdreams and aspirations change but its good to have them all the same. I wanted to be in the police force at about the same age.

I actually think if schools took responsibility for teaching the whole curriculum and left parents to parent, instead of filling in the gaps, this would be a good start.

The lessons learnt in the home environment are quite different, equally valid and cannot be easily taught in school. Children are learning all the time, be it grocery shopping or a camping trip. Schools are only too eager to do the exciting stuff, residential trips, gardening and so on. However they want to leave the handwriting practise, time stables drilling and reading ORT books to parents...I wonder why?

What age is KS2 please? I'm in the frozen north.

This thread is depressing me. So many people missing the rational points being made to the point where it seems deliberate. I blame the parents. Oh no, the teachers. Jeez.

7-11

fruit No one has mentioned the government yet!