to want to move house in London just because the area where I live has become extremely poncey?

[Mintyy]

Yes, yes, of course we have been unbelievably lucky that we chose to live somewhere that became gentrified and therefore have made a lot of money on our house.

However.

We now feel like we have less and less in common with the people who live here. We are 49 and 51 and have good but not outstanding incomes.

I have just discovered that my new neighbours (who paid an extraordinary amount for their extremely average terraced house) are newlyweds in their early 30s. They are going to be doing building works, so I am imagine an extension and a loft conversion.

We are going to have nothing whatsoever in common with them are we?

I sincerely yearn for more authentic London living. Either inner city or further out and less pretentious and overpriced than where we are now.

Such a pita to have to move though! And nothing on the market .

I've got no real problem with "gentrification"
my problem is that the UK is one of very few countries without some sort of land tax that CLOBBERS people who leave houses empty

there are nearly a million empty homes in the UK
and nearly another million 'second homes'
if all of those were either brought into use or taxed to the hilt to pay for affordable homes, gentrification could happen without offensive price rises

but the price (not value) of property in London and the south east is being driven by offshore tax avoiders, not by families looking for homes.

well I am proud gutted to live in an area that has managed to completely and utterly resist gentification

maybe cos houses look like this?
nice

Well said, TP.

I was going to say Charlton too Horticus. It's walking distance to Greenwich and Blackheath when you want to dip into some proper gentrification, full of nice Victorian terraces and larger 1930s houses deeper in and Charlton village itself really has the bare bones of a very pretty village with no chains whatsoever although I think a nice Pizza Express or Cafe Rouge wouldn't actually go amiss.

It's one of those areas of London however that actually missed much post-war immigration to make it very 'diverse' but it's just a hop and a skip to Woolwich and a run back when you've been mugged for your phone like the last time I was there or a short bus ride/ longer walk to lewisham and onwards to Deptford or New Cross. Also several 'outstanding' schools now which are making it more attractive.

That said I think it's a 'get in there now whilst it's still not hideously expensive' place as more of us get pushed out of Greenwich when we want to buy a house. Probably a bit like ED might have been when you moved there Mintyy. Come visit though, I'll show you around :)

Exactly Talky. I makes me furious that there are so many empty homes in London. I go around on the top deck of the bus and see so many empty flats above shops.

There is even an Empty Homes Agency who try to tackle the problem but they are tiny and I think a charity.

It seems to be acceptable to say that some attractive towns and villages in rural areas (especially in Devon and Cornwall) have become unaffordable to the people who live there, but London and Londoners are just expected to happily absorb all the ripples caused by colossal amounts of foreign money sloshing around in property without complaint.

All those middle class types with middle class values about helping out the elderly might come in useful if you grow old in your current house?

My family has lived in Deptford/Lewisham/Catford for over 130 years.

Skilled working-class (until the post-war education act gave us a bit of a boost). My great grandmother ran a bag-wash in her scullery and her sons were on the buses. The three bed terraces they lived in were rented and often shared with another family.

But there were more affluent families and the shopping centres reflected that. There were two department stores in Lewisham - Chiesmans which was bought by the House of Fraser and a big Co-op. My grandmother used to put on a hat and gloves to have tea in Chiesman's.

People forget that there was a period of de-gentrification, white-flight to Bromley, Bexley, Essex. Many of those who could afford to leave, did.

Tbh, I'd welcome a bit of gentrification. Like a pp, it'd be nice to see some more upmarket chains and even some twiggy shit wankery instead of another chicken and chips.

It's not a question of race but poverty. (A lot of middle-class black families seem to be moving further out now). It'll be interesting to see whether the young couples who are now paying over the odds to buy a one/two bed flat in an overflow from pricier areas can restore the area to its previous prosperity.

Bemused that if one is out working all week it makes for undesireable neighbours
I'd have thought it advantageous to neighbour we are out,as they're undisturbed.
I don't need to have anything in common with my neighbours,I simply want quiet life

I remember Chiesmans! And the tunnel from the shopping centre to that store which later became Army and Navy. And Lewisham market, and the pie and mash shops with 'green licker'

I grew up in eltham, typically white wc area. it has changed for the better in the last 10 years, much more ethnically mixed, professional families taking advantage of good quality housing, reasonable prices, 20 mins in to London, 20 mins to Bluewater Kent countryside.

But I will never see twiggy shit in ELtham High Street (they have recently acquired a Costa though)

driving past the Two Tigers always tells me I'm back in my old stamping grounds ....
there used to be a shop in Lewisham called Che Guevara - loved it

Me and DP no doubt count as wanky professional types. I wonder what part of London Mintyy would have us live in so that her little corner can stay 'real'. I'm afraid , all the nice professional type places are well out of our reach.

We've had to go for somewhere previously labelled a bit of a dump as it is the best we can afford. Frankly I'm praying for a bit of gentrification, would be nice to see the houses around us well looked after rather than gradually falling apart, and a couple of decent pubs/cafés in which to park the Bugaboo so we can competitively bray with our friends would be lovely.

We are very shallow in wanting this though obviously. We should probably join a local gang instead.

I hear New Cross is going to be the next East Dulwich bluegrass. You could go there.

I'm sad to hear that about East Dulwich. I lived on Sydenham Hill for many years and spent my time divided between Crystal Palace and ED. It's hard to explain without living there how comfortable it felt - restaurant choices were broad but affordable, eating out was relaxed and casual. The high street had a nice pace to it and a good mix of local independents.

I remember an ad in the Standard property section about 15 years ago - "Crystal Palace - the new Clapham?" and the following Saturday the place was swamped with Claphamites - hitting the estate agents as now they had been officially allowed permission to expand the Clapham boundaries.

I heard one comment "ooh wow, look a Tapas Bar like the one we have on the common!"

There seemed a genuine surprise that anywhere other than Clapham could deserve a decent restaurant, especially somewhere with no underground connection. But Crystal Palace has always been there - so why did it take a newspaper article for people to discover it?

It was when Estate Agents then started to mark all properties under the "Dulwich" bracket to try and hoik the prices up it got really ridiculous....er it's not Dulwich, it's Upper Norwood.

But hasn't that always been happening with some people in South London - I live in Clapham, err no, you live in Balham. I live in Wimbledon, err no, you live in Southfields....

It was a poor choice of words MrsDeVere. My apologies
Looking after the elderly is in no way exclusive to the middle classes and reading back I can see why my comment might infer that. it smarts slightly to be one of the people/couples being bitched about in this thread Waves to Bluegrass

Jolly - where my friend lives in Peckham was described as Upper Dulwich by some twat estate agent.

Waves back at oscarwilde.

My little area is on its fourth re-labelling in as many years. Obviously the previous ones didn't garner enough kudos and profit for the local estate agents.

Its extremely worrying. I honestly don't know what will become of London.

ah dont worry, there are many many areas of London left, let me name a few...

Hayes
Greenford
Neason
Wembley
Cricklewood
Edmonton

Just drive around the North Bloody Circular, miles and miles and not a bugaboo to be seen