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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the way we are expected to parent in this country is unnatural?

100 replies

AndyWarholsBanana · 07/12/2013 16:04

I don't mean the actual way of parenting, I mean the kind of family set up we have now. In a lot of countries, children are raised in a groups of some sort - either groups of women who all help look after each others' children or in extended families with grandparents, aunts, cousins around - it takes a village to raise a child etc. And having lots of extended family on hand was the norm in this country until pretty recently.
Nowadays, a lot of people move away from their parents to find work or whatever so don't have family nearby.
When I had DS1, I didn't know many people locally and I just remember the crushing isolation of it being just me and a baby for 10 hours a day and having no adult company. I honestly couldn't wait to get back to work.
When I had my third child 8 years later, I knew a lot more people including quite a few who were SAHMs or worked part time. We spent a lot of time in and out of each other's houses and it was always possible to get someone to have your child for a few hours so that you could go shopping or just have a bath. Also, my parents had retired so used to take Ds2 one morning a week. As well as it being great having adult company, it was nice for the kids to have other DCs around a lot of the time for company.
especially as DS2 was a very extrovert baby and seemed to get bored very quickly when he was stuck with just me.
It couldn't have been more different to when I had DS1 and I actually enjoyed it and would have been happy to stay at home longer. I've noticed that in the endless SAHM/WOHM debates, how many women describe going mad with boredom when they were on maternity leave. I just think it's "unnatural" to expect an adult to be with another human being 24/7 without a break and I think women end up feeling guilty because they don't enjoy it. It just feels suffocating and claustrophobic for a lot of people. I know it;s not somehing that's likely to change but just wondered what people thought.

OP posts:
moobaloo · 07/12/2013 16:11

Have you read "Kith" by Jay Griffiths? I would recommend it to anyone, it's probably the best book I have ever read

It's all about childhood in indigenous cultures and there's a lot about raising happy children in happy families and people sharing childcare as well as links to nature and true belonging rather than commercialism.... excellent stuff

brainonastick · 07/12/2013 16:16

I completely agree.

Not much you can do about it though.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 07/12/2013 16:18

I completely agree with you Banana. I had periods where I felt a bit isolated when dd was tiny and it makes a tough job tougher ime. Throw an arsehole of a partner into the mix and it can become hellish quite quickly.

I also found that by the time I had dc2 that I had a small group of reliable and dependable other mums around me and I managed much better. Some I'm still firm friends with, others I have drifted apart from over the years; but it was a lifesaver at the time.

Having people who understand when you just need company without all the rigmarole of arranged activities, is lovely Smile

brainonastick · 07/12/2013 16:21

I think you can widen this observation to the loss of social connection in western societies overall. Lots of elderly people living alone (which is fine if they want to, but the ones that don't...), the general rise in single households etc. It's quite sad. Capitalism doesn't necessarily bring happiness, but I don't know what would work instead.

Salbertina · 07/12/2013 16:24

YADNBU wholly agree.

AndHarry · 07/12/2013 16:24

I was thinking the same thing myself this week. It's not natural, no.

nkf · 07/12/2013 16:28

I think you are probably correct, but those extended family communities are often pretty traditional too. The people doing the child raising are nearly all women and you might find that the price you pay for dozens of aunties helping is that you are bossed around and gossipped about until you are old enough to be an aunty and then you get to boss and gossip other new mothers around.

LambinsideaDuckinsideaTrout · 07/12/2013 16:31

I agree.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 07/12/2013 16:33

I just think it's "unnatural" to expect an adult to be with another human being 24/7 without a break and I think women end up feeling guilty because they don't enjoy it.

YANBU - the idea of a mother being the primary & sole carer of her child is a very modern and a very damaging concept. Children went to work with their parents in previous centuries (though obviously that had its own problems as industrialisation came in) and were cared for in wider communities. This happened until quite recently - in the 1970s and 80s my cousins, siblings and I as babies and pre-schoolers went to work with our mothers (seasonal work on the land so we basically ran riot in a field).

That said, I wouldn't want to go back to those days but I've no idea why human beings came to serve capitalism rather than the other way round.

GodRestTEEMerryGenTEEmen · 07/12/2013 16:37

And? So? I have no local family and most of my friends, and myself, work.

So where am I suppose to get this tribe?

KB02 · 07/12/2013 16:39

I absolutely agree op. I often think about primates and group rearing and how that's how we could thrive. I also romanticise in my mind about an old fashioned terraced street where most houses had a stay at home mum and loads of kids and they would all be in and out of each others' houses. I feel isolated too as I sahm.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 07/12/2013 16:40

Those extended family communities are often pretty traditional too.

Totally agree with this. I don't think the way we do it now is perfect but I wouldn't swap my life for my Grandmother's - hell no.

trashcanjunkie · 07/12/2013 16:44

I don't think you are godrest it's not actually possible to due the normal 'set-up' in our society, without time and the forging of new bonds/links, which is actually increasingly difficult. I was a toddler group whore when dc's where little, and then was lucky enough to drift into a fantastic little community in my city. I often sat alone in the evening quite starkly lonely and it would hit me, that I was in a block of flats, surrounded by tens of others in a similar situation. All of us sat alone in our little concrete boxes one on top of another. I expect that's why we turn to virtual communites....

trashcanjunkie · 07/12/2013 16:45

I actually now feel I have the best of both worlds, but when the kids were little it was really fucking hard

Joysmum · 07/12/2013 16:46

The thought of being in a group where everyone is in and out of each other's houses fills me with horror.

I'm a SAHM and certainly didn't have the time for that. I certainly didn't stay in my house with only my child for company either.

I think it's a shame that there are people who are like that when there's a world out there to take yourself and your child into and the child gets to learn how amazing the world is. That doesn't take money, before anyone says it does. We didn't have money back in those days.

AnnieLobeseder · 07/12/2013 16:50

Not necessarily "unnatural", but different to how things were in the past, to be sure.

The world changes, and sadly the loss of close-knit communities is one of the prices we have paid for other positive changes in our lifestyles.

BohemianGirl · 07/12/2013 16:51

People are dreadfully insular these days. Cant take familial advice or follow tradition.

trashcanjunkie · 07/12/2013 16:59

joysmum I'm so hearing you! although there were times when my twins were little and I'd been 'dropped' by my lifelong friends who were actually not friends, and I had no family. It would sometimes be days between having a conversation with somebody, let alone having a chat or anything that nice. Often toddler groups can be terribly closed, and it's hard to 'get a break' if you are new.

MummyBeerestCupOfCheerest · 07/12/2013 17:05

I agree-

BUT I think these days it's very hard to find people with whom you can connect and share values.

For example, I have a lot of my family close by. I don't "parent" the same way they did...not better, not worse; just differently. I find that this bothers them and I often feel like I'm being challenged. In those instances, I'd sooner go it alone than have all their criticism around me.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 07/12/2013 17:05

Yep OP and I personally believe the isolation is one of the key things driving a rise in PND. My experience on my first was exactly as you describe it knew no one else with young children near me we do not have parents groups other than mother and toddler groups and my lovely hv they would be unsuitable as the baby was too young

LadyFlumpalot · 07/12/2013 17:11

I live in the arse end of nowhere, on a 60mph road with no pavements. My nearest neighbours are half a mile away. There is one bus a week and we only have one car which DH needs for work.

It's bloody lonely and hard work with an 11 week old and a 3 yr old.

I see my mum on a Friday afternoon each week and that is my lifesaver.

Rumplestiltskinismyname · 07/12/2013 17:12

I felt this too when my son was tiny- and I feel so sad when I read threads about people who are incredibly lonely. I'd love to have family nearby (I know many would disagree!) and hope that society may almost react against the insulation in the future and go back a step!!

LaFataTurchina · 07/12/2013 17:12

I think about this sometimes, we would like to have children in the next couple of years and both sets of parents are over an hour away from us. I'd love to move back home but we have much better career prospects staying where we are.

I occasionally ponder what life would be like if my parents had never moved to England and we'd stayed in our little village in Italy. It certainly looks great for families, all my older cousins have mums at the end of the road to help out with their DC. But, it is so gossipy living in a tiny village where you know everyone - it's part of the reason my parents left, that sort of traditional life was so stifling.

NaturalBaby · 07/12/2013 17:21

"The thought of being in a group where everyone is in and out of each other's houses fills me with horror" me too, because I'm not used to it. It's not the way I grew up (too far away from extended family) and it's not the way I'm bringing up my children but would love to change that for my children's benefit.

I agree with the principle of getting the village to raise my children but the reality is that it's very difficult because everyone's so busy all the sodding time. I'm a sahm, how/why am I so ridiculously busy all the time? I'd love to help other people more but it's not easy with a preschooler in tow and the school run taking up 2+hrs of my day (before all the extra curricular activities).

GodRestTEEMerryGenTEEmen · 07/12/2013 17:25

Yes, also fills me with horror, the idea of "open house".

We have friends. We see them afte school or during half term etc.

But I don't want them "popping in".

Ever.

And I think the rise in PND is due to knowing what it is.

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