To wonder what year 7 pupils get from building a castle model

[Verycold]

In history? What is the point?? How does it actually improve their higher level history skills?

My daughter, too, would hate this homework. However, she would do it with good grace, knowing it was part of her course and try to make something she is proud of. Actually building something is a far better way of finding out how it is put together than a drawing or essay. She would prefer to write an essay. But she is top of every class in writing so would just be demonstrating what she CAN do rather than being a little outside her comfort zone and trying something new.

There is a lot of evidence about the importance of children learning how to fail, how to be less than perfect and pick themselves up and try again. Parents who do their children's homework are showing them that success is worth more than effort.

Ask her what she wants to build it from. Buy / help find the equipment. Shut the door and admire it when it is done.

Verycold you have a very linear view for a 'teacher'. To build a model you have to learn and use analytical skills, researching and planning, thinking outside the box, be a bit creative and maybe use imagination, trial and error, communication skills if working as a team... Just to name a few

If it was all bullshit there wouldnt be workshops that involve this very thing to 'unlock' these sorts of skills in people.

My problem is history always adds a model into a huge written project.

There is never enough time to do the research and planning justice. The written part should be taken in and the model given as a separate weeks HW.

not as my dyslexic DD1's teacher did add sections to the written project as they went a long so there was no conceivable chance of her having time to build a model. She was staying up to 10.30pm as it was.

Models may be a bit of fun, but they still need time. Lots of time if shopping or paint drying are included.

I scored highly for my Yr 7 castle. Ds was not really that interested but, did paint the braziers. I think school know they are mostly assessing the parent's efforts.

Is learning to persevere with something you find difficult not a useful skill? Or do you just consider it not to be a useful skill for a historian? Do historians always find everything easy?

Parents who do their children's homework are showing them that success is worth more than effort

Exactly. Or at the very least showing them that cutting corners and cheating is an acceptable way of achieving goals.

I scored highly for my Yr 7 castle. Ds was not really that interested but, did paint the braziers. I think school know they are mostly assessing the parent's efforts. smile

I'm still disgusted that anyone thinks that is funny.

And if, as a high ability pupil, your daughter isn't learning anything from the exercise, then perhaps she's not doing it properly? And perhaps you could channel your valuable parental input towards guiding her to an approach where she would learn something from it? On the assumption that she doesn't already have degree-level archaeological knowledge there must be something she doesn't already know about the construction of castles.

I'm sure there is. Which she won't find out about by spending hours sticking lolly sticks together, because afaik they didn't use those in the middle ages. I would be more than happy for her to visit castles, study pictures, study written sources...

I don't like the idea of thinking that this sort of thing is beneath someone who is 'high ability'. My DD is high ability, but got a lot out of this task.

I do agree that parents should not do the homework for their children, other than anything involving obvious safety risks. Besides, my fondant work is vastly, vastly inferior to my DD's.

verycold yet again ignoring points made...

I don't like the idea of thinking that this sort of thing is beneath someone who is 'high ability'

Neither do I. This sneering about lolly sticks is really unpleasant. And I speak as a high achiever at school who liked writing essays but had zero craft, practical and technical ability. I would have benefited from being moved outside my comfort zone.

I think we have safely established the OP doesn't teach Art!

Actually I get her point (and the linear thinking suggests Maths or IT I think!) probably alot of famous historians will never need to build a castle. But if they could, that castle would probably be amazing.

I think what I dislike about this post is the sneering attitude towards an arts activity - and the idea that building a castle is a lower end activity.

As someone who's worked in the creative arts I always found it funny when my skills were considered "low brow."
Yet I know in my heart that few of the population could design and build a set or design and sew costumes for entire cast - and then adapt the script!

It's not easy to build a good castle - and I agree that an academic child ought to try and stretch their mind that way.

Did you find it easy to build a castle as a child OP?

Btw as a kid, I build a frickin amazing castle - ha ha ha

Valdeeves, that's it though - it's not too easy, it's too hard!

I think a lot of people are asking what sort of teacher the OP is as she doesn't seem to understand different activities for learning, the different levels of reading or writing children will have at year 7 or the benefit of cross-curricular activities.

Ah, right. You hadn't said that it specified the model needed to be made out of lolly sticks. I'd assumed that they had a free range of materials and that therefore you'd be able to guide her towards appropriate primary and secondary sources.

It seems that you've had a partial change of heart over the course of this thread, anyway. At the beginning when DoYouLikeMyBaubles suggested research into how castles were built you said that understanding what castles looked like seemed more like primary level to you, but now you'd be more than happy for her to do that.

and the linear thinking suggests Maths or IT I think!
No if you see something from a linear point of you only see it from one dimension, not seeing it from other perspectives. Or so the saying goes.

But how do you actually build the castle?

I am very interested to know. Certainly dyspraxic Ds1 didn't have any idea how to approach the model building side.

Last time we made a background out of papier mache and newspaper then fiddly bits of cardboard for the castellated walls, cocktail sticks for the fence and painted the water in. There is no way ds1 could have done any of the fiddly cutting bits. He painted it just about. He was interested. But he couldn't have planned it - as he couldn't imagine what the modelling equivalents of RL were. A child that never did lego or airfix or colouring. What do you actually do with a child like that? They enjoy the finished product but find it nearly impossible to THINK how to achieve it.

What other ideas does any one have? Ds2 is going to get this project any day now and as he has SNs I am going to need to help him with it.
Any CHILD FRIENDLY ways of making a castle model?

I think it's safe to say that the OP had decided she was NBU before she posted and a gazillion posters telling her otherwise isn't going to change that. Which begs the question why bother posting this on AIBU?

swan how old is your DS?

It depends on the age range. My answers have been completely based on the OP's child not having any special needs, and being in year seven.

I don't think "building a castle is a lower end activity". It is to me a DIFFICULT activity. Very satisfying, you learn a lot, they see the reality of the construction in 3D, they see peers' castles. But the idea that every child can do it themselves is a fantasy. Where do you start? There are a lot of assumptions about the child's basic modelling abilities and grasp of materials. It is like asking someone to sew a historical garment without teaching them to sew first. The teaching to sew is going to take up more time than the historical garment research bit.

Very cold, I am absolutely amazed that you are a teacher and fail to see where the benefit of this task is. Perhaps not for every child especially your 'very bright' child but it benefits some.

From what you say, you'd prefer academic writing, labelling or study which would be great for your child but what about those children who learn different. F them is it? As long as your child is catered for.

There is research, technology, creative thinking, logistical thinking, building. How can you not see this?

Not all y7 children are going to become historians but history is part of the curriculam, thinking of ways to forge an interest in children at this age can only be a positive thing. Some kids don't enjoy death by listening/ text book learning do they?

Tell you what is linear, you OP!

Year 7 ds2(11), and Year 9 Ds1 (13) (who has just needed a massive amount of help with his WW1 trench model)

^DoYouLikeMyBaubles Sat 07-Dec-13 18:22:52
teenandtween Then you're lucky those sorts of tasks are few and far between. Unfortunately for some children who struggle with writing - in the same way your DD struggles with craft - they have to do it day in day out and their only relief from it is in tasks like this.^

My DD also struggles with writing/essays, so the craft did not give light relief at all.

You should have seen my DD's Y7 homework! They were trialling a new style of project work and almost every single one asked for a build or a poster ... hardly an essay amongst them.
I would have less problem with build-a-castle type history homeworks if the tech subjects then requested essays!

Surely the best homework request would be to "research the construction of a medieval castle and present your ideas as you prefer. This can be for example, a model, a presentation, and architectural drawing, and essay, a rap song etc" . Then everyone would be happy!

Oh, and to whoever said something about practicing skills you're not good at. I quite agree. I am just not convinced that secondary level history homework is the most appropriate place to try to improve cutting out & construction skills that years of intervention at primary and home failed to resolve.