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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that belief in Father Christmas is not comparable to religious belief.

999 replies

Throughthelongnight · 06/12/2013 22:20

Just that really. I have noticed that the expectation is that we all go along with the pretence of FC for the sake of parent's children's sensibility, but the same is not afforded where religious belief is concerned.

OP posts:
AnyBagsofOxfordFuckers · 09/12/2013 21:34

I see BackOnlyBriefly shares my opinions that you respect adults by treating them like adults and not being all "yes dear, of course an invisible man loves in the sky because a book says so".

How will non-believers ever get through to believers that comparing belief in God to belief in fairies, etc., is not some deliberate tactic to insult and belittle, but an accurate and non-emotive or accusative way of describing how beliefs in all supernatural things that cannot be proved appear to those without faith? If being compared to someone who believes in fairies seems insulting or infantilising (and the belief in fairies, and their ilk, has a longer and more global history than Judeo-Christian religions), doesn't that actually point to a nerve being struck? And how do people make themselves think "hey, my totally unprovable supernatural belief is clearly superior to all other unprovable supernatural beliefs!"?

I genuinely would like to know the answers to those questions.

GoshAnneGorilla · 09/12/2013 21:34

Curlew - You may find this a good overview: www.faithtrustinstitute.org/resources/learn-the-basics/dv-muslim-women-faqs

Also, what on earth was strange about my post? I am responding to what is being written here, the same as anyone else.

You claim to want answers and debate and dialogue and then immediately dismiss our answers as "strange".

Any - No, I don't think we have avoided questions. You not liking the answers we give is not the same as us not answering you.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:34

Lets get this clear. You gys are tying yourself in knots by saying the Koran is the immutable word of god, except that it isn't, and you don't believe half of what's in it.
You can't have it both ways.

GoshAnneGorilla · 09/12/2013 21:36

Kitten - You are, yet again, willfully misunderstanding what people have said.

redshifter · 09/12/2013 21:36

optimist I feel you have blinkers on when it comes to looking back on this thread.

But yet again you are being very offensive and insulting towards me and hurting my feelings my disrepecting my beliefs.
Grin

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:37

And now you're crying foul because we've pointed this out.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:37

No I'm not, gosh, I understand exactly.

DoYouLikeMyBaubles · 09/12/2013 21:38

Something that really still confuses me is that, if you truly believe it to be the word of god, how can you acknowledge that it is wrong in places? And, if this is the word of god which you truly believe, why do you pick and chose which bits to believe in?

In all honesty, those we label 'militants' are following the Quran more to a tee than others.

peacefuloptimist · 09/12/2013 21:39

Anybags every single muslim on this thread has answered questions by multiple posters which is more then what I can say for some of the atheists on this thread. What is the point though? Your not really interested in the answers we give you because you have already made up your minds. The only voices that matter are those that prove what point you are trying to make. ying to make.

Curlew earlier I posted a link to a muslim website talking about domestic violence. Have a look.

www.suhaibwebb.com/category/society/domestic-violence/

Lots of interesting articles for you to read if you are really interested.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:39

The thing is that you can't just come out and say you don't believe half of it. And I don't blame you.
Look at the penalties.

defuse · 09/12/2013 21:39

Bags, you and your comrades have written 'offensive, immoral, disgusting, hateful' stuff on this thread.....not against islam only,but against humanity and people's suffering.

Now you can hold that belief, you have the right to that belief, you may find it unbelievable that i believe in God, see most people wouldn't have a problem with that, but i find your views on humans unpalatable and most people would have an issue with your disrespect for people and their beliefs/mental health status.

peacefuloptimist · 09/12/2013 21:40

And here comes bauble to prove my point exactly.

In all honesty, those we label 'militants' are following the Quran more to a tee than others.

So go find one of them to answer your questions.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:42

But she's right, isn't she.

GoshAnneGorilla · 09/12/2013 21:43

We're obviously the wrong sort of Muslims, peaceful.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:46

I think that a lot of militants would think that you are not very good ones.

redshifter · 09/12/2013 21:49

Whereas all the muslims on here would be able to openly say every thing they have written on here in RL too
Even if what you say greatly offends people?

You just can't see it can you? Some stuff you have written on here offends me deeply and would offend others in real life.

I have muslim and christian family and friends, I would and have said what I think to them. They are ok with my ideas.

I don't just tell them what I think out of the blue but if they enter a debate on religion with me I always do.

I if they come out with a dangerous or disgusting statement, I feel I have to challenge them on it. And I very often do.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:49

and I don't think that I have written 'immoral, disgusting, hateful' stuff

FreudiansSlipper · 09/12/2013 21:49

Anybags not everyone who is a non believer needs to dismiss peoples faith, i feel no need to do so and never have

i do not need scientific proof for everything for me to believe it is the truth/works maybe you do but i can respect that point of view

oh and thanks for the simple mh lesson in your earlier post, not really needed. i believe you were well aware the little bit mentally ill comment would get you a reaction

peacefuloptimist · 09/12/2013 21:50

HAHAHA. As if we want or need respect from you. Please done flatter yourself. There are no women who are oppressed by our religion. How can it oppress them its not a person, its a set of ideas and beliefs as atheists on this thread have repeatedly said. On the otherhand there are muslim women who are oppressed by people and you dont know anything about what we do to help them.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:51

Whereas all the muslims on here would be able to openly say every thing they have written on here in RL too
That bit pisses me off more than anything. Have you missed the bit about fatwas, etc.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:53

The oppressors do it in the name of your religion. Better enlighten them.

KittensoftPuppydog · 09/12/2013 21:54

Somebody upthread said 'if it quacks like a duck'...

DoYouLikeMyBaubles · 09/12/2013 21:55

There are no women who are oppressed by our religion.How can it oppress them its not a person

Well that's the most idiotic thing I've read today.

Laws aren't people but they oppress people.

AnyBagsofOxfordFuckers · 09/12/2013 21:55

Defuse, please quote exactly where I have written offensive, immoral disgusting hateful stuff about Islam, and specifically about humanity and people's suffering. I mean, objectively offensive, etc., not just daying it's hateful to speak the truth that Mohammed had sex with a child, for example. You cannot slander me that way and not give examples. I would like to know where I have been hateful about suffering or humanity, especially when I have spoken passionately many times about goodness being innate in humanity, as opposed to needing a religious text to teach them that. I have also explained that I do not think mental health issues are negative or a stigma. You will also find that psychologists worldwide call believing in magical, invisible figures without proof a form of delusion. I am merely stating fact, not insulting.

And who are my 'comrades'? Have you sunk so low in your inability to debate and accept criticism or critical questioning that you are trying to do silly things like suggest we are part of some group?! It's all a bit embarrassingly teen princess footstamping, isn't it?

Also please provide evidence where I have said anywhere that I find it unacceptable that you believe in God, because I have taken grat pains, as have all the other non-believers, that we totally respect anyone having faith, just that we don't respect the content of magical belief without proof. Really, if you can't grasp the distinction, I despair, I truly do.

You cannot twist what has been said to suit your agenda, although there has been plenty of that on this thread around the more dubious aspects of the Koran.

And I have friends of all sorts of beliefs in RL and I would say everything I have said here, and more. I also do not tolerate racism or ignorance, and have confronted people in RL, or on the internet, for making islamophobic or racist comments (such as after 9-11 or the murder of Lee Rigby). It's yet another immature argument technique to huff about people not having the balls to repeat what they've said elsewhere.

peacefuloptimist · 09/12/2013 21:56

Do you even know what fatwas means kitten. Its not a hit list you know. Grin Even if it was I think you would be quite low down on the list.