To think that it's ok to want to bring up your children and to be a mother, just as it's ok to go out to work instead?

[bronya]

I was brought up to 'have a career' and to think about work not babies. I admit I'd be bored doing nothing, and love the tutoring that I do - but I have no wish at ALL to be the main wage earner and leave the childcare to someone else. When my DS was born, it felt like I was complete. I'm happier, have more self esteem and confidence than I've ever had. I've met many other mums who feel similarly. Surely, our choice is just as valid as those who are WOHM? The point of feminism was that we should have that choice - whichever one we choose is our decision, surely?

No-one has paid my childcare Retro, just me and my husband. I have never claimed tax credits and I have never whined for help.

With the sports day thing, it was an example of why it is now easier for me as a parent, still with school age children - by remaining in work I have afforded myself the opportunity to not still be on the bottom rung at work, nothing more, just an eg.

I was agreeing with Janey re those people who say "no point in me working for free", and pointing out why I did in fact decide to work more or less for free.

I did ask the question though - why do SAHP feel they need recompense for looking after their own children, can you answer that? If not, fair enough, but it is a genuine question, not a dig - it is something I really don't understand.

Totally agree with monicalewinski and Janey.

We never had any help with childcare costs either and for 18 months whilst both of my children were at nursery, working did cost me more than I earned, taking commuting costs into consideration. But I did the right thing for my family and we are now reaping the benefits, several times over.

Retropear, that is a silly comment about sports day - there are millions of working parents who cannot just book the time off. Many people have constraints on when they can take time off and/or for how long. Besides which for many/most working parents booking a half-day for school sports day simply means you have half a day less to use for such frivolities as school holidays, TD days, etc. Or in my case 2 full days since we have full sports days and 2 different schools. I was able to go but have sympathy (and a camera) for those who weren't.

As a woman I happily pay my taxes to enable other women to have the choices that I have been very fortunate to have when it comes to going out to work.

As a woman I am happy to pay my taxes so that children grow up thinking that it is perfectly normal to be a woman and have some financial independence and career options.

As a human being I recognize that work is a path out of deprivation and therefore if my taxes can pay towards that.

As someone who is rather self centre I recognize that society is safer if people are not living in poverty and therefore it makes sense to contribute my taxes to that.

I do wish however that companies paid living wages and that my taxes were not used to prop up businesses that can't pay their staff bill or are too greedy to do so.

I think sahp simply want fairness.

Thanks Newt

This thread has helped me think more clearly about our situation and why we aren't happy.

I am quite jealous of my friends who stay at home in some ways just because it is clearer. They are responsible for everything to do with house and kids, their DH brings in the wage.

For me and DH it very easily defaults to me feeling responsible for everything to do with house and kids AND being the main breadwinner.

Ideally it would be a 50:50 split of both parts but that is harder to fairly achieve especially when the world assumes that the woman is responsible for everything domestic. (He gets plaudits for doing the school run- when I do it this is just seen as normal).

My life would be a whole lot easier if I had a partner who wanted to be a SAHD but I think it's right that I respect his desire to work as I hope he would mine if the situations were reversed.

If he were a woman I still think he'd be at home by now though.

I would love to be a SAHM, for me it would be an indulgence to give up a 15 hour worming day and spend my time pottering about with the children and animals.

But just because it would be an indulgence for me, it may not be for others.

I may give in and stay at home when baby number five is born, particularly because we want another soon after.

Fairness? In what?

A SAHP makes a choice to stay at home, just as I made a choice to go back to work. Neither choice is less valid than the other - a small (vocal) minority on each side slate the other:

"All WOHP hand over their children for others to bring up - why did they have them in the first place"

"All SAHP are lazy latte drinkers"

The majority of us are all in agreement that you do what is best for your family, in the circumstances you have been dealt, in the best way that you can.

FWIW, I agree with Philoslothy, above; there should be no need for tax credits etc, because a living wage should be paid, but I just don't get how paying a SAHP is necessary or 'fair'. That parent chose to remove themselves from the workforce, why should a SAHP get paid to stay at home when I was out working for free??

In what way are SAHMs treated unfairly in comparison to WOHMs, Retro?

Mamadoc- I think the reality is that a lot of couples want more balance, and it's wrong that society defaults to the woman to do the lions share of domestic duties, and men get applauded for doing something totally normal like the school run.

I agree that achieving 50:50 is not easy, but it's a great goal to aspire to.

I don't want to have the sole responsibility for being breadwinner. Neither do I want to totally abandon my career and pass that responsibility to my DH. It may seem simpler for one person to earn and the other to take on all child and home responsibilities- as you say, it makes things more easily demarcated. But at the end of the day, we all have only one life, and I would rather me and dh each have a balance of work and home rather than feeling that we each have to choose. I appreciate not all couples feel the same, but it's not in the least surprising that many do

I get no help as a working parent , none that I don't pay for anyway. To be fair it would be a criminal waste of taxpayers money if I did get help .

I can recognize that I don't need help but others do.

Why should wp get help with childcare then?

They are their children,sahp sort out their dc's childcare with no help so not sure why the state should fund childcare for wp.

As I said kids cost and need looking after,we all know that before we have them.Many sahp save and plan in order to fund their childcare so surely wp could do he same.

How would you measure fair?

For the most part my children are either at school or they are being looked after by either myself or DH (although we both work full-time we are only both out of the house during school hours). Occasionally they'll go to a holiday club during the school holidays, for which we pay. What is it that a SAHP isn't getting from the government that I am?

Because I don't want to see anyone trapped at home if they would rather work, that creates unhappy children and parents and huge costs in the future both social and financial.

I think an ability to work and pay towards your family is a basic human right.

Because as a woman I want to enable other women to have fulfilling careers - if they want them - I want my daughters to be raised in a world where it is not assumed that their ovaries are their greatest asset.

Because we need women out in the workplace as cleaners, nurses, teachers , shop assistants and care workers. Many of those jobs do not pay enough to cover childcare , are you going to ban all cleaners from having children ?

All working parents don't get help with childcare - only those on very low wages. If wages weren't so low and childcare costs so high then they wouldn't need any help at all.

And why would a SAHP need to pay for childcare? They are their children's childcare, surely?

This is why i have always thought that they should keep universal CB and just increase it. Because then it can be used to either help with childcare costs OR staying home costs and it is fair to all, gives more options and more people can choose to do what they want.

How much do you think working parents get in tax credits, Retro? Another one here who got fuck all. Not that I'm complaining.

If your household income is that low that you're entitled to significant help, chances are you'd also get help as a SAHP

Wtc and there will be new measures coming in for those families on £300k or under.

Retro - You're talking to 4 parents here, all of whom have said they didn't/don't get any help with childcare costs.

FWIW, as a working parent, I did save and plan to fund my childcare. How else do you think I managed to spend 18 months paying out more than I was earning?

£300K and under??????????? That's a fuck load of people!

I didn't get tax credits either Retro - I got nothing. I get child benefit, that is all - something which a SAHP also gets, what do I get that you don't and why is it not fair to you?

£150 each and under.

As the higher tax rate is what £32k and those on it are seen as wealthy then really why should those from £32 and above get help.

Every penny counts,so we're told.

And no all sahp don't get CB anymore.