To think that HV's should not be doling out 'advice' on school admissions and to be livid about the implications

[spritesoright]

Sorry, this is long.
I recently took DD to her 2Y health visitor checkup. We got the usual advice about vitamin D, teeth brushing, etc. Then near the end she asked me if I had looked into schools at all. We have moved recently and chose a house within walking distance of two 'satisfactory' schools but beyond this I have not done anything.
I actually believe that home influence is more important and as long as DD is at a 'good enough' school nearby she will do fine with our support.

The health visitor then went on to strongly urge me to make further considerations and suggested checking the catchment distances, attending church if we're religious or MOVING closer to a good school.

I was a bit flabbergasted.

Initially I thought she was just trying to be 'helpful' but a friend got the same lecture at her HV appointment so it seems to be standard in ours and surrounding councils as advice.

I can't help thinking that the implications of this are that if we don't get DD into a nearby school we aren't being proactive enough so it's our fault as parents. At least that's what the council are trying to say.

In reality we live in a borough that had a massive birth boom in 2011 when DD was born where schools are already oversubscribed and I can see the council doing little about it. I suspect they are constrained by the coalition's emphasis on free schools and academies (don't get me started).

I checked the council primary admissions guide online when I got home where it urges parents to 'choose realistically' based on distances but even though we are only a few minutes walk from nearest schools, DD would not have been admitted to either this year based on distances they provide.

Other nearby schools are Catholic or C of E and given that we're atheists that's not going to happen.

So, AIBU to think that I shouldn't have to open my own free school, convert to a new religion or pay twice the amount for a house next to an 'outstanding' school in order to get my child into a primary school!?

I know the council has a responsibility to school her somewhere but what I fear is that it will be 5 miles away (in london rush hour traffic) or in some temporary trailer in a parking lot somewhere because the council are not being proactive enough and instead trying to pawn the responsibility off onto parents?

I welcome your thoughts.

IME of trying to create change, people don't work collectively together in London generally. They form groups centered around what they want, and work for it, in short sharp bursts only, with a disregard to how it affects everyone else and tailor their arguments to work in favour of their group, not the greater good.

The reason a school stays good is because pro active parents fight or pay to get into it, then once in do whatever it takes to keep it that way. Most parents dont actually want their chldren in the same classroom with children of all backgrounds and abilities regardless of what they say when they're little. Depressing but true.

The anxiety is there, fuelled or not. It is real. The collectively working together to challenge the policies is there to an extent but it is not real in the same way. Not realistic to a parent who has lots on their plate and can only see as far as getting their kid a school place. Sad but true.

If a HA isn't even able to talk to you about the situation without getting your back up and these short-sighted parents are busy with their tricks and games, then I don't know why you're relying on collective solutions to resolve the problem on a wider scale.

It isn't the hv's or even the nhs trust's fault, so the best they can do us warn parents. Bit this strategy can't work for everyone when there's a growing population and the lea isn't building new schools. So all this will do is make the parents who are in a school black hike feel guilty for something which is caused by a system failure.

"people don't work collectively together in London"

Which is just a concentrated version of people elsewhere, time immemorial. Apart from Soviet Russia / Communist China of course.

And Scotland :) Always helps if there aren't that many people.

Well, there's actually a thread somewhere at the moment about someone in Scotland being buggered due to lack of places in catchment.

It's a problem. Hence the anxiety. Unpleasant, yes. Unwarranted? Nope.

I would bet the mortgage she hasn't been told to tell you to avoid the local school! It'll just be her opinion, and a valid one I think. Except the getting religion thing.

YANBU to be livid about the implications of the advice but I think you're assessment of the HV's role is incorrect. HVs don't answer to the council, I doubt they are being the council's mouthpiece here, they'll just be passing on information that parents have told them they wish they knew.

To be honest the current situation isn't even the council's fault entirely, they have been overwhelmed by demand over which they had no real control and had their hands tied by the Government. I'm sure they could be doing more (and more to the point the coul dhave done more 5 and 10 years ago that would have gven them more flexibility now), but it is difficult to make enough places available when your budget is under strain from so many directions, the physical space in existing schools is restricted and you aren't allowed to open new schools.

OP, admissions criteria for C of E churches only apply if the school is "voluntary aided".
DD will, hopefully, be going to a C of E school but as it is "voluntary controlled" the admissions process is run by the LEA, not the governors. There are lots of C of E schools in our town but only two of them apply religious criteria

Pinkdelight Yes London's just a concentrated version, but is generally more diverse, more competitive, potentially a lot more cut throat, and many not intending to stay, so a lot more short termism. It moves fast and doesn't wait for the weaker or indecisive.

Not my area of London . There are some v community-based pockets.

She was trying to be helpful. It's not about saying you have to do anything and neither is it anyone's responsibility to come up with a practical plan you are "supposed" to put in place. You have to come up with that yourself depending on your individual circumstances.

She wasn't to know that you can't afford to move, or wouldn't want to home educate, or are content with a "good enough" school, or aren't religious/prepared to convert. She was giving you a heads up that you need to be thinking about it as it is an issue locally.

Oh no! Your health visitor tried to be helpful.
How unreasonable.

Just re-read your op, in fact if anything you should be cheesed off that no interfering busybodies flagged up the need to check distances before you moved house. Then instead of a vague walking distance, you would have been in catchment. And given that the schools are satisfactory not outstanding it presumably wouldn't have cost more. So you're situation is a case for more anxiety fuelling if anything.

pinkdelight I find your views quite unhelpful and rather apologist. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to buy a house in London when prices are out of control. The school nearest us has a 'closest distance' measure of 180metres!

There is a school shortage across London and this is a particular problem in our borough because of a baby boom in DD's year of birth but instead of doing anything about it and then reassuring parents they are getting HV's to tell parents to be sneakier about their 'strategies' thus fuelling the collective anxiety and exacerbating the problem.

And that's okay?

Maybe there is less of a 'conspiracy' here, as Emmeline suggests, but the systemic effect is the same.

I'm not taking issue with the particular HV but I don't think her advice was helpful or productive. Everyone paying increasing prices and scrambling to practically sit on top of schools is not going to solve the problem.

I think she was right to mention it. When I applied you needed to apply in the October, nearly a year before they were due to apply and I was surprised we weren't notified of the application date by anyone. I just found out by word of mouth as far as I remember. The gp surgery is the best able to notify people at developmental checks. I met someone at a toddler group who had missed the deadline as she hadn't been aware of it. So she'd been allocated whatever school was left over.

nearly a year before they were due to start I mean

Well I have a friend who is down on his luck, getting a divorce and possibly bringing his kids to attend state school in London - they're currently in the US. My advice to him was "start going to church this Sunday". You may find it intrusive, but it's reality.

Do you think maybe the HV wants to stir parents up to campaign to the council for more school places while there is still time before these children need to apply?

Sure. She overstepped the mark with familiar helpfulness. It depends on the context, really.

According to the OP she said, "attend church if you're religious". I have a hard time finding fault with that. I'm used to the idea of church as a route to a school, though - I see it as a pretty "normal" thing to do. OP doesn't have school-aged children so I can imagine the shock at hearing it maybe even for the first time?

I think the hv was doing her job well tbh. You say you've just moved, well maybe she was trying to give you info she thought you'd need.
If the LEA aren't doing anything to alleviate the problems at least the hv was warning you ahead of time.
Think you are lucky to have such a good hv, tbh.

Sure. I understand Chunderella. It's really an issue of pragmatism vs neutrality. But people complain on these very boards all the time about HV's being utterly conscripted by the NHS, without any willingness to deviate where sensible. This HV was stepping out of bounds to make a helpful comment. I can't help but kind of admire not necessarily the content of her suggestion, but the fact that she made it.