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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

.. to be shocked at the hardcore nature of the hits when you google porn

139 replies

ElenorRigby · 05/12/2013 11:46

Try it, type porn into google.

I had no idea you could access porn so easily, there's tons of it and its really nasty too.

Seriously I thought you had to pay and download this stuff!

OP posts:
GodRestTEEMerryGenTEEmen · 05/12/2013 12:15

But the internet left it infancy circa 1997.

Or over 15 years ago.

The OP is naive. As is anyone who thinks opting in at the ISP level will help. See Fridays posts.

ElenorRigby · 05/12/2013 12:16

Well done silver, you obviously have lots of time on hands.

OP posts:
SilverApples · 05/12/2013 12:17

Bloody hell friday, I'm glad my two never discovered that link!
But why pay when there is redtube and the rest? Better off working on your children's understanding of why you don't want them watching porn, when they are old enough to have that dialogue.

SilverApples · 05/12/2013 12:18

No, I'm a teacher with two adult children.
So it was something I needed to know about, for my family and for my job.

friday16 · 05/12/2013 12:19

any porn sites usually required a credit card to gain access to the more hardcore stuff.

I've been a daily user of the Internet and its precursors for thirty years. As soon as porn was available (mid-1990s? I recall sacking someone over it in a building we vacated in 1994) it was available for free. In fact, my assumption would be that it was free before it was paid for, because there were so few means available to take payment. As soon as search engines like Alta Vista, started up, fairly crude search engine optimisation techniques meant that searches for almost anything were rapidly contaminated with porn, and the "free samples" were graphic and varied enough to be going on with. Indeed, Google's great USP was making that sort of abuse of search engines much harder.

ElenorRigby · 05/12/2013 12:23

Well my kids are are 11 and 6. Im not a teacher and I have no interest in porn so it wasnt something I needed to know until the eldest rapidly developed and now looks 14!
DP should have told me really. He's tech savvy and uses porn.

OP posts:
THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 05/12/2013 12:24

I'm sorry but if you have a computer and you have children then it is your job to find out about this stuff. You cannot claim ignorance on this. You have an 11 year old daughter and she presumably has access to the internet - did you not think to educate yourself as to what was on there?

It's not a bloody question of how much time you have on your hands, you MAKE time for this. It's important.

It's been on the news, on childrnen's TV, in newspapers - everybody knows how easy it is to Google porn yet you have only just discovered it? I don't believe that.

Put a bloody filter on your internet, make sure you are always around your daughter when she uses it, filter YouTube and Google and if you don't know how then find out. You've got time to post on Mumsnet so you clearly have time to safeguard your daughter.

ClayDavis · 05/12/2013 12:25

I would think using a parents card would be a more likely method of paying if they needed to.

Everything friday has said is spot on. Isp level filters are virtually useless and provide little protection. They ate definitely not an 'opt in' for porn.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 05/12/2013 12:26

Oh so your dh uses porn but you had no idea how easy it was? So he uses porn on the same computer your kids use?

Are you bloody for real?

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 05/12/2013 12:27

To stop porn you need to tackle it at its source. Target the porn industry and target the internet providers and search engines who allow access to porn.

Golddigger · 05/12/2013 12:29

I have seen her name about. I think she is for real.

If you google something into the internet it comes out.

And to me, any porn is bad.

ElenorRigby · 05/12/2013 12:29

I obviously have no ffucking clue cliff many thanks love

OP posts:
ElenorRigby · 05/12/2013 12:30

nope cliff the kids do not have access

OP posts:
Golddigger · 05/12/2013 12:31

You may want to ask mumsnet to delete this thread Elenor.
I think that this thread may get worse.
Or else you may want to hide it, and let the thread go on its merry way.

ElenorRigby · 05/12/2013 12:32

will do golddigger thanks

OP posts:
Heartbrokenmum73 · 05/12/2013 12:35

I'm over 40 too. I knew that if you googled porn you'd get porn. What did you expect to happen?

Have you ever used Google before? When you google things, you tend to get those things back - why did you think this would be any different?

Oh, and I knew this without googling porn - common sense really.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 05/12/2013 12:35

Sorry 'love' but you have no sympathy from me. Get clued up.

Your dh uses porn but you seemingly don't give a shit?

You must have read about porn on the internet, it's been a news topic for years. Or did you bury your head in the sand?

Your kids will soon need access to the internet and I'm surprised they don't already. My son is 9 and he has homework that needs research via the internet. My dd is 13 and uses a netbook to produce her homework. Access to the internet is vital at secondary school.

I don't care how much this might piss your dh off, but your kids safety is more important than his porn fix. Google Safe Search can be locked. Get yourself a YouTube account as this is the only way you can filter it. Once you have an account, go into settings.

Even these measures are not foolproof and porn can get through. The porn industry even targets search terms that kids use in order to bypass the filters.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 05/12/2013 12:38

Golddigger MNHQ won't delete it for nothing. I'm sorry but every parent has a duty to know about this. She's received instructions on here about how to safeguard her kids. And I'm sorry, but any parent who is that ignorant about the internet does deserve some stick. It's not an excuse. I work online every single day and I am fully aware of how dangerous it is. I've written articles about how paedos infiltrate kid chat sites and how the porn industry targets children. There are evil people out there and this is not something you can afford to stay ignorant about.

friday16 · 05/12/2013 12:41

But why pay when there is redtube and the rest?

And why would you need to pay, when in fact the porn ecosystem is as follows:

  1. Group A produce porn to a high quality (technically: the scripts usually leave something to be desired) using the bottomless pool of desperate young women often with drug problems who think that it's a way of getting into Hollywood. They sell this to people who want new material in fullHD which fulfils the precise details of their niche interests. There's still a perfectly decent market in making for-money porn, although it's not as big as it way. Their product is either very pretty young women having relatively (I say, relatively) non-abusive sex in expensive houses in the Hollywood Hill, or a declining spiral of progressively less young and less pretty women having progressively more abusive sex in progressively nastier locations.
  1. Group A accept that their customers will rip the content off and upload to video sharing sites. Those sites, let's call them Group B, make their money out of selling advertising space, both for the for-money porn in point 1 and for general advertisers, with a different balance between those for youtube on the one hand and (let's not name them).com on the other. If Group A's customers rip off either their latest stuff, or rip it off in too high a quality, Group A issue Group B with a DMCA takedown notice, which will be immediately actioned. Group B have robust and effective mechanisms to deal with illegal content and reported copyright violation, because they are not remotely interested in porn; they are interested in making money, and therefore any legal challenge will ruin their entire business.

So Group A make money by selling HD porn, and Group B make money from advertising sales on the back of low-res porn (and some "premium memberships", but their heart isn't really in it).

Meanwhile, a whole load of home-made stuff is being made by Group C, presumably (I'm guessing) semi-consensual, although you can't help suspecting it's the hallmark of an abusive relationship as well. The producers aren't interested in making money, but Group B is quite happy to host and stream it, because they can sell adverts on it anyway. Group C don't have quite the same need to stay legal, because they're hard to find and don't keep accounts, but Group B still doesn't want to host illegal material, because it will get them closed down and turn off the magic money tree.

Groups A, B and C are adults and their material is mostly legal in most places. The UK CPS has occasional fits over, oh, let's not mention that, and, oh, let's not mention that, both of which are perfectly legal to do in the UK but in principle illegal to make videos of, but in practice anything involving adults who are not being immediately and actively harmed will not excite (ho ho) the law. There's a political and ethical question as to the reality of the consent, but the same might be said of all sorts of things. No-one rational thinks this should be made illegal, and even few people think it would be possible so to do.

And finally, the really, really nasty people who either are interested in illegal material or are sufficiently keen to make money that they will risk illegal material are operating on the dark Internet, far from any observation by Google. Groups A, B and C will run a mile from child porn, for example, because there's not enough money in it to risk the jail time and (in their own eyes, at least) they are mostly decent people whose response is of revulsion just the same as the rest of us. Every study shows that there is little to no straightforwardly illegal material on the public internet; it's all being traded on the dark internet, and if you "solved" that, they'll just get better at encryption (they're not bad at it already).

So A are happy to see their stuff given away provided enough people pay, B and C are giving it away, D you never come into contact with. It's a functioning economy.

friday16 · 05/12/2013 12:45

Google Safe Search can be locked.

In the same way that you can keep you house safe by writing "no burglars" in chalk on your front door.

Gruntfuttock · 05/12/2013 12:48

This thread is absolutely unbelievable. How on earth is it possible to be so surprised at what happens when you Google porn? So surprised that you actually start a thread asking other forum members to Google porn, so that they can see what happens.

Just incredible.

Gruntfuttock · 05/12/2013 12:50

I have never Googled porn. I never will.

Guess why.

Because I don't want to see porn.

It's very very simple.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 05/12/2013 12:50

friday16 it's not exactly ideal but other than ban children from the internet altogether what else can you do?

SafeSearch does filter out many porn terms, I see a difference in images particularly. My dd was googling blue tits in the spring as we had a nesting pair in the garden, she got images of the bird. With SafeSearch off - well you can imagine.

This Vodafone booklet on online safety came via dd's school and it's brilliant. All parents should have one.

friday16 · 05/12/2013 12:53

Target the porn industry and target the internet providers and search engines who allow access to porn.

What does any of that mean?

"Target the porn industry". Most of it is located in other countries. The Americans have quietly enforced some legislation against the industry there, particular over health and safety and workers compensation. The net results of that is shifting of quite a bit of porn production to Russia and Eastern Europe, where you can be absolutely certain everything is worse for everyone involved.

"target the internet providers"

To do what? Network level filters are ineffective and will be either bypassed or turned off by the vast majority of households. The exact same VPN technology that home workers use to access their employer's machines, or that people who want access the BBC iPlayer from abroad or the Jon Stewart show from the UK, will bypass all such filtering. There's absolutely no way this can work other than to stop people who don't want to see porn from seeing it accidentally, and even then it will struggle to be more than about 80% effective without being utterly infuriating.

search engines who allow access to porn

How will that work, exactly? Are there really people who use Google to search for porn? I mean, other than for giggles? There are specialised search engines that deal only in porn: why would they give up their lucrative businesses, which they can locate anywhere in the world? And even setting that to one side, who would decide what Google were allowed to index? Me? You? The Ayatollah in charge of the Iranian government? I can't see Mumsnet surviving long under the latter's control, can you? And even one you've drawn up the rules, how many billion pages do you think are indexed per day? Who going to check?

friday16 · 05/12/2013 12:55

SafeSearch does filter out many porn terms, I see a difference in images particularly.

Of course it does. I use it all the time.

However, the idea that it can be locked against someone who wants to turn it off is preposterous. The lock might stop a dim 8 year old from overriding it. And the coloured balls means that in a classroom you might be able to see that it had been turned off. But the lock is entirely ineffectual against someone who wants to unlock it.