To not want to help this child out?

[Etainagain]

My son goes to a weekly activity and when I found out that a boy in his school shares the same interest, I offered to take him along too. My son wasn’t really friends with him as the boy is in Year 6 and my son is in Year 4, but they get along fine. The journey takes about half an hour by bus in the rush hour. The boy was well behaved and polite at first, but after about four weeks his behaviour began to deteriorate. He is rude to me and to to the coach, he demands so much attention that it is practically a private lesson for him (my son pushes himself forward a bit but the other children are really polite and can’t get a word in edgeways) and his behaviour and language is often inappropriate. Now I get my son asking me what paedo means, what blow jobs are and what humping means (usually very loudly on the crowded bus...yes, my son is no angel either!). A few weeks ago, I told his mum very gently that I was finding his behaviour difficult to cope with. She said that he has mild Aspergers, but that his behaviour wasn’t acceptable and that she would talk to him. But she was very distressed by what I said and started crying and told me how difficult she finds it to cope with him. I felt awful about upsetting her, but she did talk to him and things improved for a short time. Now we’re back to the bad behaviour and although I understand that he can’t help much of what he says and does, I’ve really had enough. I don’t want to take him anymore, but don’t know how to tell his mum given her past reaction. I think she only hears criticism about her son, which must be hurtful. I’m torn between chickening out and basically lying (saying we’re not going anymore, but I could get caught out), or just being honest and asking her to take him instead. Or maybe I should just be a bit more charitable and carry on taking him (not sure his mum would have the time to do it). What do you think I should do?

What makes me suspicious here is that the boy clearly can behave when he wants to - i.e. he behaved for first few weeks, and then for a while after you spoke to his Mum. I don't know much about aspergers but would have guessed that if his behaviour is caused by any SEN he would not be able to switch to good behaviour when it suits him...

I would speak to his Mum though because it is not your responsibility.

Is there a reason why she can't take him?

Agree the boy is capable of behaving well. I think you need to stop taking him for your son and the boys sake. The boy needs to learn a hard lesson of whats appropriate. I would probably apologise to the mum and explain that it's too much for you/DS.

Every child needs boundaries/discipline.

I also found it odd that he is capable of behaving. I think he can be really manipulative. I don't think his mum would take him because of the time it takes (it's 45 mins each way door to door) and also because of the cost (she would need to purchase an adult fare and money is tight). I would ideally like to talk to his mum honestly about what has happened and why I don't want to take him with me anymore, but I don't want her to get upset again because she seems like a lovely person and I really like her. I thought I approached the subject as gently as I could before, but she still cried.

Hmmm. Seems to me the boy has learned manipulative behaviour from his Mum.

Please tell her exactly what he has been like and why you no longer want to take him.Its doing neither of them any favours to gloss over the facts nor is it good for your own DS to have this boy as a role model.

I think you need to put your DS interests first. This boys inappropriate behaviour is rubbing off on your DS and you are not happy with it. The other mother will just have to deal with it.

Some uncharitable responses on here. The mum cried so she is manipulative? That's a bit of a sweeping statement.

I would probably continue taking him as I cannot bear to see people cry.

But I am soft like that.

Why don't you ask the mum to accompany her son in your car so you don't have the responsibility and she can keep him in check?

I think you have done your best. The other boy's behaviour is now impacting on your son and that would be the deal breaker for me.

Tell her that you will no longer be able to take him. Make the decision and just tell her. If she cries, comfort her but do not change your mind.

Thanks for reminding me about that lisad, sometimes I forget how hard things are for him too. Some days I just know he's had a really hard time. He says his teacher hates him and that nobody likes him (actually, he seems very sociable and always seems to have friends to play with at school, but I suppose it's his perception). Recently, there have been quite a few outbursts of anger and aggression where he has shouted at other children at the club and threatened them, but he often tells me he regrets how he behaved. I suppose that is why I don't feel comfortable telling him off, because I know that he'll be giving himself a hard enough time without me adding to it. I probably haven't expressed myself very well on this post. I do like this child, just not his behaviour recently.

If he has shown that he knows how to behave, then he needs to do it, or be not be taken to his activity. And he needs to know I that he has that very clear choice to make.

My ds has Aspergers, and when he was younger he would make a clear choice about where he wanted to behave or not. Although his negative behaviour was always at home, if he dint feel like behaving well, he just wouldn't. He didn't have that thing most children have in their heads that make them want to be well behaved just for the sake of it, or because he wanted adults to be happy with him. Those emotions just didn't exist in his head, but he was able to behave well when he knew he had to, or face consequences he didn't want.

This boy isn't your responsibility, and you are not in any way obliged to help. In your position I think I'd have one last go at dealing with the child, but tell them tell him exactly what you expect behaviour wise on the journey otherwise you will not take him anymore. Tell his mum what you are doing, and stick to it.

I think it is probably time to end the arrangement.

I do have an issue with tears=manipulation. I cry occasionally. I'd rather not, but I genuinely can't help it at times. It might be because I am angry, sad, frustrated etc. But it is never because I want to manipulate someone. And I am sure the same is true for many other people.

I think the OP goes on the bus, tryharder.

What I don't understand is how the boy got there before, if the mum can't take him and yet he was doing the activity before you started taking him?

Anyhow, don't overthink it. You've done a good thing helping her out. It's causing you needless aggro, say sorry nicely / make an excuse like the going on elsewhere afterwards one. It'd maybe be different if it was a friend of your DS, but this lady must surely have people other than you to call on. Or else the DS can't do the activity. It's not that big a deal really.

Her DS can't do it I mean, not yours.

have you asked mum what strategies work to help manage his behaviour when he pushes boundaries? you could try being very clear with him before you go on the bus, speak plainly about the behaviour you expect from him so when he displays anything other than this you can remind him that's not what you discussed. if he has asperger's then a 'social story' type conversation can help to remind him of what to do, rather than what not to do.

I should add, you shouldn't feel guilty if you feel you can't continue this arrangement, but there may be ways in which you can still make it work for you again if it did before. Working with families of children with ASD I can only guess how grateful his mum is that you're helping out this way, and I'm sure she will understand if you can't manage anymore.

I say this as a parent of a ds with ASD & ADHD. This lad isn't your responsibility.

My ds has never been to any sort of club or after school activity. He just wouldn't want to go.

The thing with children with Aspergers/ ASD is that they need very direct consequences & very firm boundaries. Keep that in mind if you are going to continue bringing this boy to the activity.

Have you considered that this boy might actually want to stop going to the activity? My Ds has high functioning ASD and does do some after school clubs but he has tried some that have not been successful and we ended up stopping. He has never asked to stop going to something but his behaviour has deteriorated to the point where I have realised that he doesn't want to do it any more for whatever reason. He often starts out behaving well but his perfectionism and difficulty with concentration (he has ADHD as we'll) sometimes kicks in and if he thinks he is doing much worse than everyone else he gets very unhappy and then behaves badly.

He won't ever say he wants to stop going or even admit it as part of him does want to keep going but the other bit doesn't and it is that tension along with his inability to articulate that that causes the problem.

Anyway sometimes I have stopped him going and he has protested but I have held my ground as I can't deal with the behaviour any more and after few weeks it has become obvious that he is happier not doing the activity. Sometimes we have done the activity again at a later time and it has been more successful.

I only say this because the pattern of behaving well at first and it deteriorating is something I recognise from my own Ds and it usually means he wanted to do the activity at first but then realised it was difficult or not as much fun as he imagined or something about the activity made him anxious. in his street dance class someone mentioned that he could really hurts himself if he didn't listen and got a move wrong. This made him very anxious and affected his behaviour. This only came out several weeks after I had stopped him going to the class. He has no desire to go back to the class and is much happier since he stopped.

Alternatively if he likes the class refusing to take him one week if his behaviour the previous week was unacceptable might help. This helped a bit for my Ds at one activity that he really did want to go to.

I would tell the Mum that the arrangement isn't working for you anymore. I don't see that it would benefit anyone to tell her exactly why - she already knows.
It's a shame it didn't work out but there is not much more you can do.

Its a no-brainer for me. Id put my son first, and stop taking this boy. Let him mum deal with it, if he still wants to go then she can take him cant she? Seems to me he behaves when he wants to, and plays up when he wants to. So..take a step back and just leave it to mum to sort out

I'm sorry, but your Year 4 son is now asking what a blow job is and you are thinking twice about stopping taking this boy? You have to put your own child first.

I don't think you need necessarily to see it as an issue over whether you can still do this favour.

It seems to me that the boy's behaviour is deteriorating, possibly or even probably because his Mum isn't present to deal with it, and you as "another boy's mum" can't really tell him off or impose sanctions.

Taking a DC along with you to a club because you are going anyway is one thing. Dealing with bad behaviour and counselling him about who likes/doesn't like him etc is a Mum's job.

I think my approach would be "I'm afraid that X's behaviour has gone downhill again. I really think that you need to be there to supervise him because obviously I'm not his Mum and he knows that, and he's not going to listen to me as well as he'd listen to you. He sometimes needs to talk through what has happened as well, and as I am not his Mum I don't know him so well as you and I am not sure whether I am saying the right things. So from next week I think you'd better take him."