AIBU to not understand luxerys these days and poverty.

[milton2591]

what do you class as luxury's ?
what do you class as living under the breadline?

I think luxury is a moveable feast, personal and depends a lot on what everyone else has. I grew up in a time and place where families regarded a house phone as a luxury, but no-one had one so everyone was on the same footing. Poverty's also relative once the genuine basics have been taken care of

I live in a city, but the public transport is expensive, unreliable and often does not run the hours and times needed to get to work! It's not just a rural problem, although my in the rural area my parents live the bus services are almost non-existant

That's why i was specific, elf! Public transport through Tyne & Wear is bloody fantastic. Here in Co Durham, it's not, though I know it's far from the worst in the country.

when I put in my rent plus other details on that link it said we needed a minimum income if 49k. I would be happy with that! we are in less than that and do ok.

Pom I'm afraid in that case it is a luxury item for you, and dongle useage will treat it a such, anything like videos, youtube, or picture heavy content will up your useage hugely from basic, and make it expensive, though yes you can ask people to make that your present.

Ouryve you're right about the specifics. I'm London but can't even independantly get to and from the public transport system that I then can't access without a helper, without a car.
To me my ability to live and parent independantly is an essential, but others would say it's a luxury.

we spend less than half their suggested expenditure on clothes. probably a third of the amount suggested. we all manage to dress well- I never shop in primark and kids shoes always from clarks.

Phones and laptops aren't so much of a luxury these days. Won't Universal Credit be done entirely online?

I read something quite powerful about all members of a society needing to belong to that society. This is an awful time of year for the financially excluded (we're not affluent by any means, but we do OK). I hate the crass, grasping "buy, splurge, consume" pre-Christmas message (though I love Christmas itself).

It seems some people just wants to divide the poor up into the deserving and undeserving. David wankbadger Cameron will be pleased. This is exactly the narrative the current government have been working so hard to weave into our collective consciousness.

Luxuries to me are things that make life more comfortable and enjoyable;

Nights out - meals, theatre
Regular hairdresser appts
Regular beauty appts- waxing, manicure, pedicure
Holidays abroad
Dc participating in after school activities
Going clothes/shoe shopping in nice shops
Food shopping in Sainsbury, M & S, Waitrose
Driving a newish car

Poverty to me is;

Never having enough food. Not being able to eat well I.e. fruit and vegetables.
Never leaving your local area
Having very few clothes
Having to walk to save on bus fare whatever the weather
Living in an undesirable house/area

according to that link I am entitled to 135£ per week housing benefit at our current income! not sure how true that is.

Some people just want to divide...

According to that link we are nowhere near minimum income for a basic standard of living! What bollocks! How is spending 90 quid a week socialising and 45 quid a week on clothes a "basic standard of living"? We spend less than that a month! We have a low income and claim partial housing benefit but there's no way I would describe myself as living in poverty. We have no holidays, shop in lidl, buy supermarket clothes and have no nights out but we're very happy, can afford the basics and don't feel poor.

bloody hello I have just been on my council website and we are entitled to over £100 per week housing benefit!

by the way I wasn't saying a car isn't I was just asking what others thought, I started this thread as I live on 19k a year with 2 kids and my fried was stating we were below the breadline and I wouldn't have classed myself as being under.

I did the minimum income thing and I'm apparently £97.41 under what I should have a week. We're doing fine at the moment but there isn't a lot left over for extras.

Are pets a luxury?

They can be expensive.

Needed - money to pay for housing, travel to work, food, basic clothes, and basic heating, glasses if needed. Above and beyond that vetures in to luxury territory for me.

Luckily for me I am in the luxury territory, as a child growing up I think we often weren't.

This is vital reading on the question of why people spend as they do:

killermartinis.kinja.com/why-i-make-terrible-decisions-or-poverty-thoughts-1450123558

key sentence:

"I make a lot of poor financial decisions. None of them matter, in the long term. I will never not be poor, so what does it matter if I don't pay a thing and a half this week instead of just one thing? It's not like the sacrifice will result in improved circumstances; the thing holding me back isn't that I blow five bucks at Wendy's."

Is a bought lunch at work a luxury? Yes, I think so.
What if you didn't have it? You would save something like £1k a year.
Great! Well done! Now another 39 years and you will have a deposit for a flat.

This is interesting. According to the calculator, I need £16852 a year. However, I am blessed in not having to pay rent or mortgage so adjusting their figures for this, I should need about £13K. I think I earn (self -employed) between £10K and £12K per year (it varies) including tax credits. I can manage, but don't have any money spare really and if I have to take time off work ( for illness etc) I usually have to dip into savings.

I do run a car, but it is 11 years old and I need it in order to do my work. I don't spend anything per week on alcohol ( except maybe once or twice a year) and don't spend anywhere near £40+ on cultural/social activities. I do have a laptop and internet but again I use them a lot for work. I don't have any TV packages, just freeview. I do my main food shopping in Aldi as it is a lot cheaper. I'd struggle to have many holidays if a good friend didn't invite me to holiday with her when she has already paid for the accommodation. I don't feel hard done by but have fantasies of holidaying in a camper van or going glamping!

It is nonsense comparing nowadays to medieval times.

You don't even have to go back beyond my grandparents to find it impossible to compare like with like.

My grandmother was brought up on a farm in Ireland where there was plenty to eat all the time. Meat, milk, cream, eggs, potatoes, cabbage, apples, home made bread, butter - you were knee-deep in it. You could fish too, if you were that way inclined.

The household expenses were yearly. Sugar, tea, flour and other bought supplies were bought in huge amounts and stored in bins.
There was very little visible money. An outfit might last 3 years: you had sunday best, school clothes, and scruffy play clothes. 3 outfits, where the sunday one was always too big and the play clothes too small.

To spend any money at all was an event. To take the pony and trap 12 miles into town was a thing of excitement and great discussion.

There was no electricity or gas (after dark there were candles and oil lamps; cooking was done on a range that burned turf).

Did my grandmother grow up poor? No. Could you bring up a child like that now? No. Could you have 3 outfits for a child; no internet, no running hot water, no electricity, no TV, everything homemade, no bought treats for friends or packed lunches - well maybe no bought treats. I think you can have children and have home made treats only, there is nothing wrong with home made cakes and biscuits. But the rest - I think it would mark the child out to be tantamount to abuse.

Medieval people had no books because they didn't need them. They had no cars because they didn't need them. they didn't need smart phones either and they weren't barred from employment by not having smart styled dyed hair and at least 5 different outfits. You can't compare.

This is good reading too

tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/

The minimum income calculator is a national calculator - so takes the most expensive areas and higher expenses for those with disabilities in mind - and is more about the minimum to fully participate and live in society rather than the minimum to survive.

People keep commenting on socializing and cultural item. Getting out for many people will be a difficult and costly affair, and many are left in isolation, loneliness (which is as dangerous as smoking 15 a day, according to latest research), and left without human connection. Being able to connect with others and with ones culture is part of being human. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation - that is supporting the minimum income calculator - are wanting people to fully live rather than what I consider the rather sad view of viewing anything above survival to be a luxury. It also shows the problems of having requirements for survival be so costly, let alone the cost of proper living.

Poverty is lacking choices and lacking access to all of our needs. We still live in a society where just meeting our survival needs can be difficult, especially for those with chronic illnesses, and where our postcodes can change our healthcare, pain relief offered, and life span. We can be used to being able to live without, but being able to do so doesn't mean it's a luxury, it means the system is broken in making living, connecting, and accessing to our needs as people commodities for someone else's profit rather than for the benefit of the people.

Yourtoastmildred, thank you for the links, especially the second one. Spot on!

for my family the social budget was a bit under. we probably spend £100 or so per week. I would be miserable if I didn't get out and see my friends and go on date nights.

I just asked my Bangladeshi assistant and he said at he the money is shared between a new roof and food after school fees have been paid

Theodorous you can't compare across countries like that.
I scrape along around the bottom here and don't have two meals a day, but can give a child in Uttar Pradesh two meals a day, as well as an education, two sets of clothes, and access to a Dr, for £2.35 a week.

On paper sponsering a child is a luxury, but that amount won't give me enough here to justify not giving it to her.

Maybe you should be trying to get your assistant a better deal?