to speak to the school about this?

[Queen0fFlamingEverything]

DD is in Yr 6 at a small village school. Every day, almost without fail, her class are at least 5 minutes late out of school. The other classes are generally out on time, and on the one day a fortnight that her class has a different teacher to the usual class teacher, her class are also on time.

They are meant to finish at 3.15 but the earliest her teacher has ever let them out is 3.19. Most days its more like 3.25 and several times it has been 3.30. DD says this is because the teacher insists on everyone standing silently before anyone leaves.

There's no shelter in the playground and its pretty unpleasant waiting with smaller children. I often just turn up at 20 past now, but for people with DC in other classes thats not an option.

More seriously though, DD wants to start walking home on her own. Its a 15 minute walk over fields with no major roads to cross, which I am otherwise happy with her doing - but I want to know when to expect her back and when to start worrying if she's late...

IME some teachers do seem keen on the group punishment thing as they believe the peer pressure gets the kids to behave. Not a big fan of it myself. And as I say, it would piss e off as well

A friend of mine went into school all guns blazing about her DD being kept behind, only to be told her daughter was trading Moshi Monster cards in the cloakroom after school every night, and that was what was making her late.

I had a final period science teacher in Year 7 who kept us all in until there was 'silence.' I was always desperately silent, because I knew I would miss my bus and have an hours' walk home... which I did every last period science lesson. The kids who were mucking about didn't have to get the bloody bus! After a few weeks of me coming home late twice a week (no mobiles in those days either), DM wrote a letter requesting the teacher let me out on time, as the consequence for quiet me of her policy were much harsher than those for the noisy blighters. After that, she began to let us out on time. Thanks mum...

I'd be interested to hear the views of teachers on this thread because my impression from talking to friends who are teachers is that whole class punishments are bad practise. Certainly I don't see how "just tell the parents to do something" helps - the decent parents with the good fortune to have neurotypical children, like OP, already are doing something, and their children are effectively being punished for the misdeeds of others. As many have said, some of the children who can't stay still/quiet may have other problems like ADHD - in which case they're being punished for something they should be being supported to find strategies to cope with. And the ones who misbehave because their parents don't give a shit - well, their parents still aren't going to give a shit, whole class punishment or not.

Its not always the ones whose parents don't give a shit that are the noisy ,fussy ones. Quite often its the ones who's parents believe them to well behaved little angels.

There are sometimes so many arrangements for children for staff to remember: after school clubs/children going home with other children/taxi's meeting some children at the school - we need to be able to account for each child's whereabouts -and then there are last minute letters that sometimes have to be given out. Some children ,it seems, just cannot be still and quiet or quit fussing while this happens,so it takes longer to complete.

And then there's the 'Birthday bag of Sweets' that has to be supervised. (You wouldn't believe how long that takes with children being fussy about the packet of sweets they get "I don't like this type of Haribo, can I swap it?")

If everyone just did as they were asked, it wouldn't take long to sort out. If we stopped to sort that out before the end of school ,(3.20 in our case) we would have to stop lessons at 3pm to begin "hometime".

Well atm I am there waiting nearly every day and DD is among the first out so although she can be an almighty faffer I'm pretty sure it's not because she's messing about in the cloakroom. If that was the case then the other children wouldn't all be late out too - but they all troop out at the same time. The infants class are always put on time, as are DDs class when they have a different teacher.

I know there are worse things that could be happening but it is very annoying and I do think it's poor practice. The school would be pretty peeved (and rightly so) if I was routinely sending her in 10-15 minutes late after all.

jamdonut But apparently, in the OP's case, the other teachers do manage it.

I teach year 6, school finishes for my class at 3.15. So I stop teaching at 3.15. The children then sort themselves out and off they go. Some are out of the door in 30 secs flat, others can take 5-10 minutes to leave. If I finished 10 minutes early so they could all be out by 3.15 the children would miss 32 hours of schooling over the year and I'd rather they didn't!

If the 'teaching' involves waiting for the class to be silent at the end of the day, I could do without that!

If I couldn't get silence from my class quickly then I would consider myself a poor classroom manager. Are we sure that this is the reason?

I don't think there is any reason to be late letting the children out every day. The teacher should manage her time better.

I don't think it's unreasonable of the teacher to ask for silence before the children leave, in yr 6 they should be able to follow instructions.

Quiet before departure will NEVER be required in secondary, it's control freakery on yr6 teacher's part imho.

I would just let her walk home & not worry until 3:50pm. So I think OP is being a bit daft to want such precise consistent timings too.

Quiet before departure will NEVER be required in secondary, it's control freakery on yr6 teacher's part imho.

As a secondary school teacher, I completely disagree. Nobody leaves my classroom until every pupil is standing silently behind their desks, and the same goes for each and every one of my 200 or so colleagues.
It is not control freakery, it means we can ensure sensible and orderly exits.
A year 6 class should be completely capable of doing this and presumably once they are following instructions they will be leaving class at the normal time.

I also teach secondary and all students stand in silence behind their chairs before they leave. Never had an issue with it.

I honestly don't believe my DC to be angels. They can be sods and I freely admit it. But I refuse to believe that sending the children out 10 minutes late every single day is really necessary. The other teachers manage to have them out on time!

Plus, it is such a tiny school that there really isn't a lot of birthday sweets or after school club type faffing to be done at the end of the day. DD's class only has 16 children! And there are no letters either - the school sends everything by email to cut costs. The children aren't seen out by the teacher either, they just come and find whoever is taking them home in the playground on their own. So it honestly isn't due to extra stuff that needs to be handed out or organised or supervised.

I think it's no wonder the kids don't take the teachers seriously when the parents are picking and choosing what instructions the children should and shouldn't listen to to suit them.

To be honest Queen, if it is taking up to 15 minutes to get 16 children to stand behind their chairs in silence then there really is a problem.

It is definitely the case that all the children are kept until the whole class is waiting in silence. If it was due to some children messing about or chatting or whatever, they'd drift out in dribs and drabs - but they don't. They all come out at the same time.

Giles it is not a matter of parents picking and choosing. I doubt very much any parent says don't do that. However parents are allowed an opinion, the education is there to serve our children. It is reasonable for parents to voice their concerns.

In the OP's case do you really think this is time being well spent?

If the bell goes at 3.15 (as ours does) then its expected that the children are being taught up until then. Therefore by the time letters are given out, water bottles, coats and bags retrieved and they are dismissed it has to be at least 3.20 before they leave the building, surely?

I hate group punishment like this. If its been going on for this long its not working is it? The kids whose behaviour is going to be modified by this have already started towing the line and the ones who are misbehaving obviously don't give a shiny toot about the rest of the class being kept in.

Charlie, I had a very similar experience to yours. We had a teacher who was very keen on keeping everyone behind after school when one or two were badly behaved. The kids misbehaving really didn't care because they lived right next door to the school and didn't give a monkeys if they missed half an hour of CITV but I lived miles away and there was no other way home but the school bus.
It all came to an end one sleety January day when I burst out crying in class when she said she was keeping us in. I was so frightened, I panicked and thought I would have to walk very many miles home in the dark and freezing cold and to be honest there was very little chance of me making it alive and well in those conditions. She went a bit pale when I explained why I was crying and it never happened again.

Tbh given the op had just told us that there are just 16 kids in the class my first thought would be, just what have they gotten away with the rest of the years that they can't follow one simple instruction.

If it's the same children every time if have assumed that any problems with behaviour would have been dealt with or parents alerted to years ago.

Is it not now possible to think that instead of being a control freak maybe she's trying to sort out what other teachers didbt. Perhaps they were in such a hurry to finish that they didbt care how they behaved the last few mins.

This is what I think has changed over the years. Even at secondary we used to pack up before the bell rang, so we were ready to go when the bell rang.

Oh FGS gileswithachainsaw I am not doing anything of the sort

I haven't told DD to walk out or to ignore the teacher, in fact I've repeatedly told her that if the teacher wont let them out til they are all silent then she needs to be bloody well silent.

Its not 'to suit' me, the official time her school day ends is 3.15 and to keep them later every day is a PITA. If they want to make the end of the school day 3.25 - that's fine by me. Lets have it made official and we can all stop wasting time in a freezing playground every day!

The school only has 2 teachers (along with a head and a few TAs) and she has taught the junior class for the last decade, actually.

And the infant class are out at 3.15ish every day, as are the junior class on the days when they have a supply teacher or a specialist 'outside' teacher (like last term when they had a music teacher come in for the last lesson one day a week).

We always got the " the bell is for me not for you" line from the teacher.

We packed up after the lesson had finished.