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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to expect exp to wait outside for DS ?

38 replies

cestlavielife · 25/11/2013 13:34

yes i know it's cold but its five minutes maximum!
and due to exp past behaviour i don want him in house. nor does dd.

ex keeps messing Ds around with dates - eg sends him email "see you tomorrow" tomorrow comes and he cancels last minute. not for first time. we try not to tell ds (he has lds/asd) he is coming so he wont get upset.
friday he was "definitely coming" at 6.30.ds was told.
ex texted 6.51 "sorry late be there in five minutes."
(i was out ds was at home with his after school carer ) i texted carer to let her know he was no way. .
6.57 my dd who was at home texted to say doorbell had rung. carer got ds ready, but when opened door there was no one there...
6.58 text from ex "no one is answering so i am leaving". (given text at 6.51 maximum time he could have been outside was five or six minutes) (he knew people were home as lights were on and he would have seen ds thru window!)
further texts about how he wont wait outside etcetc.. cue ds disappointment.

exp not allowed in as has barged in on other occasions, also pvs past behaviour aggression etcec... it is not his house he has zero rights. has got in dd face and demanded to know why she wnt talk to him, "dont you know who I am?" "i am your father!!!" in her face etc...dd has her reasons for not seeing him.

today's email - "i can pick up ds at 6.00 to 6.30 but i wont wait outside"

i have emailed "you cannot come in but please just wait outside for maximum five minutes while ds gets coat and shoes on"

barrage of nonsense back...essentially saying no he wont wait outside.

it isnt that big a deal to wait on doorstep is it?!

and dd has right to be in her home in peace; so it is all a bit tedious.

OP posts:
Sparklymommy · 25/11/2013 13:52

Have you tried explaining to him why dd is so upset with him and doesn't want to see him? How old are your children?

I understand your point, but I also can't see it being practical or promote a healthy relationship between your exp and your dcs if handovers can't be done in a more mature way.

Could you not meet in a cafe or something? I think you are both being a little unreasonable I'm sorry.

curlew · 25/11/2013 13:55

If I knew people were in and I knocked on the door and nobody answered for 5 minutes I would go away again, to be honest..........

kinkyfuckery · 25/11/2013 13:56

Why wasn't the door answered to at least acknowledge he is there? My ex doesn't come in my house, but I at least answer the door to him to let him know the kids are getting ready.

If he is not prepared to wait, he needs to give you an actual time. 6 - 6.30 is not enough.

mrstigs · 25/11/2013 14:01

You can just answer the door, say 'wait a second whilst he puts his shoes on', then ds can leave with him. Its something i do nearly every day when friends call round for my ds. You don't have to just ignore him ont there whilst you get your son ready.
But yanbu to say he can't come in your home if his behaviour in your house upsets everyone in it.

Original poster
cestlavielife · 25/11/2013 14:03

dd 13 long history ex's violent behaviour and severe mh episodes incl aggression; was contact centre previously etetc. has been let down too many times. no he wont listen. dd locks herself in bathroom if he comes into the house to avoid him. should she have to do that in her own home? when obvious solution is handover on doorstep and ex doesnt enter...

ds 17 but mental age five or six. constantly having his time with ex cancelled by ex. at last minute. have had ds waitign from six pm to go eat dinner then been cancelled at 7.30 pm!

have pvsly been open to ex coming inside home to wait but have to set boundaries after he has barged in, been aggressive towards dd, started plugging in his phone to charge (without asking ) , starts trying to argue if i am there, refused to leave etcetc.

quick handover at door step is the aim. hello; goodbye; have fun . of course in winter getting coat on takes couple minutes... no longer.

OP posts:
Original poster
cestlavielife · 25/11/2013 14:05

door not opened because he will abrge past into lviing room and create scene with dd
if she hasnt had chance to go hide in bathroom to avoid him. or he will go harass her at bathroom door.

OP posts:
Original poster
cestlavielife · 25/11/2013 14:08

if open with chain on so he cant actually come in he starts barrage of abuse "how dare you pout chain on to me" so cannot win. hence tactic of wait outside til ds is ready.

OP posts:
Sparklymommy · 25/11/2013 14:09

I get that it isn't appropriate to have him in the house, but perhaps he coul text a more definite time and ds can aim to be ready when he arrives?

Otherwise maybe he could collect from neutral ground.

ScrambledSmegs · 25/11/2013 14:09

Does he have an proper contact schedule, or is it a more ad hoc arrangement? Because he sounds like he's really doing his best to muck you around and upset you. The only power he thinks he has left, probably. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile, etc.

He can wait outside. Lots of parents wait outside at handovers, it's not unusual. Some don't even get out of their cars. He just doesn't want to. Given his previous behaviour and the fact that he has upset your DD to such an extent that she doesn't want to see him (is he her biological father) I would say that protecting your children definitely takes precedence.

Although it might be an idea to answer the door when he rings just as an acknowledgement, and let him know how long your DS will be. Unless there's a chance he'll take that as a cue to barge in?

ivykaty44 · 25/11/2013 14:12

I can see why you don't want to open the door to acknowledge his presence -would texting him when he knocks the door be an alternative - then it says we know you are waiting and will be out in a few minutes.

He is trying by the sounds of it to make trouble and it crossed my mind if he is doing this so that eventually he doesn't have to have access to ds, but can then play the blame you game rather than be a man and say actually I can't cope with a ds with special needs and so pissed about Sad made things difficult so I don't have to have him.

I would also probably set boundaries as if you are over 30 minutes late it may not be possible for you to have ds

MimiSunshine · 25/11/2013 14:12

Stop the emailing about coming in, just acknowledge that he is picking DS up tonight and ask for a definite time.
Have shoes and coats waiting near the door. When ex knocks, open the door but keep yourself in the doorway, not open wide for him to come in, then ask your son to put his shoes and coat on.
If your son needs help doing this, say 2mins please to your ex and shut the door.

I don't think he has to come in, most people would like to be invited in to the hallway but wouldn't be horrifically offended at being asked to wait on the doorstep (assuming it's not stormy out).
Barging in, being aggressive, and plugging in chargers without asking (that would make my blood boil, how presumptive and proprietary) sounds like he's trying to stamp his authority in your home (he has none).

ScrambledSmegs · 25/11/2013 14:13

Ah, x-post. What an arse he is. Does he know that his daughter is afraid of him? Most normal people would be mortified by that and do everything they could to change that.

ivykaty44 · 25/11/2013 14:14

Otherwise maybe he could collect from neutral ground.

thats sounds like a PITA if the ex can be up to an hour and a half late and then cancel... the op may have to waste a couple of hours getting there waiting and then getting back

Original poster
cestlavielife · 25/11/2013 14:24

impossible to get regular day eg have tried in past year to set eg a tuesday. he will do one week then next cancels - even on same day and one hour before due time for pick up. on even one hour after pick up time
six thirty pick up becomes 6.55, or even 7 30. it has been known for dinner with dad to be cacelled one hour after pick up leaving ds hungry and having to scrabble dinner together for him. ex is well known for unreliability.... (except when he chooses to be relaible for certain appointments, funny that... )

blocking door doesnt work - he will push and shove to get past.

neutral ground is good but only if can be sure ex is there -ie has to be havign ex say "i am outside supermarket on the corner" which means yes he will still be waiting outside.

even drop offs agreed at his flat - he has been known to not be there at appointed time. ds should not be taken to meet point and then told oh sorry. it is ot fair. at least waiting at home he is happy on his computer... it is such a night mare trying to make contact work for ds.

OP posts:
ScrambledSmegs · 25/11/2013 14:46

Not an expert at all, but it sounds like you're going to have to stand your ground a bit more. So agree contact, get it drawn up (have you already done this? is that possible?) then if he doesn't turn up that's it till the next agreed contact time. His choice.

I agree with ivykaty about him probably wanting to paint you as the bad guy stopping him from having contact with his son. Does it matter? You know, your kids know, everyone important knows that you've done what you can to facilitate contact. You can't, however, wave a magic wand and transform him into a responsible co-parent.

Sorry, posting on ohone, takes ages to ruddy type. I feel for you, he sounds like a selfish prat.

ivykaty44 · 25/11/2013 14:58

it is such a night mare trying to make contact work for ds.

I wonder if you said

ok access is a nightmare you don't turn up or are late etc, lets stop access all together it seems you aren't bothered about seeing ds so lets get of the merry go round and call it a day. Said very calmly without accusation

I would put money on it that things would change for a while... or he stops, but either way it would be easier for your ds

I hate ultimatums and would rarely suggest them, but this man has put up with contact centres to prove himself to others so my guess is you very calmly doing this may get the result you want for a while

needaholidaynow · 25/11/2013 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hissy · 25/11/2013 19:53

Are the kids getting anything out of seeing this terrible man at all?

Can you just leave it?

AnUnearthlyChild · 25/11/2013 20:01

If he pushes in call the police

ICameOnTheJitney · 25/11/2013 20:03

I don't understand why the carer would hear the door bell and then get DS ready and THEN answer the door? Confused Surely you'd answer the door, leave it open and then gather the child and bag and send them out?

ShinyBauble · 25/11/2013 22:08

Read the thread Jitney...

ShinyBauble · 25/11/2013 22:09

I can't believe that a grown man would barge his way into the house to harass and verbally abuse his daughter!

Get a chain on the door. And if he ever walks in unannounced again, call the police immediately.

FunkyBoldRibena · 25/11/2013 22:46

Turn up time and you won't have to wait outside as son willbe ready for you next time, on time.

Dervel · 26/11/2013 00:22

Absolutely not unreasonable. Estranged father here, I wait outside unless invited in. Ex and I do not see eye to eye very often, but it is crucial civility applies. Her place is her place and my place is mine. He shouldn't be nursing angst and aggression he is there to be a dad, not to kick up a fuss.

Aussiemum78 · 26/11/2013 03:47

Sounds like he only keeps up contact to harass you.

Do you have a formal custody agreement? Maybe a written agreement on days/times would help you enforce boundaries.

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