to expect exp to wait outside for DS ?

[cestlavielife]

yes i know it's cold but its five minutes maximum!
and due to exp past behaviour i don want him in house. nor does dd.

ex keeps messing Ds around with dates - eg sends him email "see you tomorrow" tomorrow comes and he cancels last minute. not for first time. we try not to tell ds (he has lds/asd) he is coming so he wont get upset.
friday he was "definitely coming" at 6.30.ds was told.
ex texted 6.51 "sorry late be there in five minutes."
(i was out ds was at home with his after school carer ) i texted carer to let her know he was no way. .
6.57 my dd who was at home texted to say doorbell had rung. carer got ds ready, but when opened door there was no one there...
6.58 text from ex "no one is answering so i am leaving". (given text at 6.51 maximum time he could have been outside was five or six minutes) (he knew people were home as lights were on and he would have seen ds thru window!)
further texts about how he wont wait outside etcetc.. cue ds disappointment.

exp not allowed in as has barged in on other occasions, also pvs past behaviour aggression etcec... it is not his house he has zero rights. has got in dd face and demanded to know why she wnt talk to him, "dont you know who I am?" "i am your father!!!" in her face etc...dd has her reasons for not seeing him.

today's email - "i can pick up ds at 6.00 to 6.30 but i wont wait outside"

i have emailed "you cannot come in but please just wait outside for maximum five minutes while ds gets coat and shoes on"

barrage of nonsense back...essentially saying no he wont wait outside.

it isnt that big a deal to wait on doorstep is it?!

and dd has right to be in her home in peace; so it is all a bit tedious.

I see... my fault...I didn't read all of the thread and see what a nasty arse he is. OP I feel for you having to give him contact. Is there no way to stop contact? It must feel bad having to hand DS over.

Woah Jitney! Stopping contact is way over the top. I agree that the handover sounds poor, but we don't know anything about the interaction between OP's DS and his dad. It or probably an important relationship for him.

OP is it worth writing to him with your suggestions for some ground rules? Would you consider going to mediation to talk about these issues?

I do think that the question must be asked 'is this worth it for my child?'

He's terrorised one, consistently disappoints the other. What is he like with this vulnerable boy when alone with him?

I'd be setting some strict rules that the ex either adheres to, or he doesn't. His choice.

Choices have consequences.

yanbu to expect him to wait outside but yabvvvvu to expect him to do so with no way of knowing whether his knock/bell ring has been heard. I recognise he is/has been an arse but that doesn't absolve you or the cm of your obligation to offer common courtesy, which in this case should have included opening the door when he first rings (poss with it on a chain if there's a risk he could barge in) and letting him know that DS will just get his coat on and will be out shortly.

He should wait. If he can't wait then he gets no contact. Let him go through the courts but his aggression and unreliability will work against him. I'd also start cancelling if he says he will be more than 30 minutes late. It is unreasonable for him to keep your ds hanging around, waiting and probably hungry.

Ds's carer should not have to deal with an aggressive arsehole either.

It sounds like this is about the ex having control, not about him having access. If he was bothered about the access at all he would be more patient and not be late/cancel all the time.

Zillion maybe I'm oversimplifying here...but as a Mother I can't see how anyone can hand their child over to a man who they have to lock the door against.

Not that I am judging AT ALL...what would I know....it just seems awful and wrong for the OP to have to suffer this.

Hissy that's what I thought. I know that if a man...even DH...were violent and controlling to me, I'd have a VERY hard time trusting him with my children. OP....you know your situation best though.

Has anybody asked the bairn what he wants?

I feel your frustration OP my ex is a knob over contact as well.

Maybe the drop off will be better. (I just drop off and pick up) as in a 'let's go see if dad's in' kind of way (or whatever wording works for you) and push a note through the door when he's not in. He then chooses whether to have contact.

I wouldn't let him to come to your house anymore and I know how rage inducing it is when your child is mucked about just to make waves in your life.

I don't understand why you're facilitating contact at all. It's obvious from your posts he's an aggressive bully and this is the only way he can exert any power over you and the children. Next time he texts saying he'll be late I'd tell him you have to go out so he'll have to rearrange, and repeat every time. But then I'd probably move to the other end of the country to keep someone like that away from me and dc.
If you really are keen to maintain contact then yes, offer a day/time, if he does'nt turn up then he waits till the following week.

The shoes are the bit that'd take the time to have those on ready and the coat won't take more than a few seconds to do

Jitney unfortunately the famoly court system regularly sees fit to award even abusive men contact with children. If only it was as simple as saying 'no contact'

OP I would tell him to text you when he arrives, you text him back to acknowledge his arrival and agree that DS will be out within 5 minutes ? I know when Ex is beating my door, the kids get stressed and shoes/coats take twice as long

ds wants to see him but manages fine if goes few weeks without..is better that than having expectatons and being disapointed. have tried discussing this with family therpaist/mediator type person but tedious and pointless - she tried to ask ex what he thought ds felt when he cancelled or was late and he admitted it did happen but said it was "her fault" ie my fault for everything i did to him in the past (?) - it was pointless continuing those sessions.

past history means not fair to expect carer to let him in - not up to them to try and stop him charging phones etc. he knew from texts ds was waiting. it is all about "i wont wait outside".

there is a 2010 court order for regular supervised contact (hence dd1 wont go unless there is "supervision" so can get away with that) and "any other contact as agreed". the supervised doesnt generally happen as ex wont agree to any person and to be fair it has moved on a bit since we used a mutual friend during 2011-2012. however, i wont give up the order as it may be needed again eg if ex stops taking his meds etc.

so this is the "and any other contact as agreed between the parties"

tks for all your views including the point of view that letting someone in is polite/ civil - yes indeed but it doesnt work unless the other person respects the boundary (he doesnt) .

also to those who yes do wait outside and dont see it as an issue.

yesterday i didnt tell ds anything, but offered to drop him off with ex at seven pm (ex had said he could have him from six/six thirty and said carer could take him there. i said no it was better i took him - dont want to risk carer taking him then him not being there as has happened..., when back from work.). i got back a little earlier and texted at 6.45 and said "i can bring ds now" (is less than five minutes walk to his place). he said "no i am not in". (cue emails later with streams of incoherent ramblings about how i clearly dont love my dc)

so yes, back to being more strict and you all right - i should say yet again - tuesday is your evening, this is how the pick up will work (or i can drop him off eg i get home, text "are you home i can bring ds now " and if yes tell ds, if no say nothing...) ) and if you miss it then tough .

dd2 (11) - well another story. has started thursday pick ups from school which been ok and started alternate sundays to the leisure centre for sports family sessions with him which she enjoyed... see if it lasts. [funny he can be quite pleasant and charming in certain situations...]