to think people stating they would never go to Seaworld after watching Blackfish are being naive?

[ThereWasOnceAGirl]

Of course I don't agree with keeping such beautiful creatures in captivity. However people watch this film and think their contribution would be to bravely say - I would never step foot in there again.

If you even do just a bit more research into it you can see that -

What happens when that place loses money, is that they will take that money out of the whales - pools become worse, they will have less environmental stimulation.

Or lease the whales back in the ocean. As lovely as that would be, do you honestly think any of them would survive after being in captivity?

Look at Keiko, who was released and craved human attention and died mere months after being released at a very young age.

Sea pens? Yes definitely a better way of life for them, but who would fund it? Because Seaworld won't.

As much as I know people are trying to take a stand, simply saying I won't go to Seaworld ever again or wanting them back in the ocean is not going to solve this horrible problem.

But the end result of going is they can carry on their treatment of these animals indefinitely - the end result of not going (if you go down the 'they lose loads of money' road) is that they close down and can't treat any more animals like that. So based on that logic it's still better not to go - even if you take the 'not being able to stomach going' feeling out of the equation.

A good analogy is with not buying clothes made in sweat shops - if you do you're supporting mistreatment of those workers, if you don't you may be putting those workers out of the only job they can get. So ideally you stop buying the clothes AND donate/campaign for better treatment/better practices in those clothes factories, or buy from companies with better ethics (to then create more jobs etc).

The same applies here - don't go BUT also try to improve conditions in other ways and support attractions where they DO treat animals well. Don't just keep going to SeaWorld to make sure the animals that are already mistreated aren't treated even worse! That makes no sense.

I get what you are saying, but equally still going to Seaworld means that the place continues to make money and to think that they can have more captive killer whales, so the cycle continues.

I think, awful as it is in the short-term and for the whales that are already there, I would rather take a long-term view and try and stop places like that existing.

Agree with not releasing them back into the wild though, most are not capable of surviving. But I would rather give money to charities that would try and home the whales that are in captivity now, and not encourage places like that to continue.

And I've just realised that you were probably saying don't go back to SeaWorld AND do something about the conditions too, in which case my previous post is very snarky and I actually agree with you, so massive apologies if so!

I agree that just not going won't solve anything, but it's the only thing most people can do to "protest" these places.

I agree that just not going won't solve anything, but it's the only thing most people can do to "protest" these places.

Exactly.

Its about holding Seaworld accountable for their actions.

i could be wrong but I don't think Seaworld are allowed to take whales from the wild. I think other countries capture them and hold them and then are able to sell them to SW - something I saw in another documentary.

So as much as I and the next person want them to never be able to take another whale, they are always going to find some sort of loophole.

"Sea pens? Yes definitely a better way of life for them, but who would fund it? Because Seaworld won't. "

They won't at present, but if there is enough public backlash, then they will.

Disney etc live to come over as fluffy and friendly, if a few Clebs pick up

Sorry, pick up

True Birds ... definitely a better way, getting it more attention.

I think they have about 22 orcas and I doubt they would release them all. How do you pick which ones stay and which ones leave?

They'd never release Tilikum because he's far too valuable.

Sorry again, pick up on this, then public awareness will grow and at least for the next generation, there will be a difference, as there has been across all animal welfare.

As for loopholes, Greenpiece, Save the Wales etc are campaigning and sometimes losing their lives, to try to make changes.

So whether or not people do boycott the place, changes will be made by just saying they will, as happened with animals being carried about for photos in Spain etc (they are still about, but not in the numbers that they once were).

I don't believe in defeatists attuditudes on these things, we can but try.

I don't believe in defeatists attuditudes on these things, we can but try.

I'm not being defeatist at all, just being more realistic. And stating that what might seem the obvious prevention (not going to the parks) is not the solution.

Its all about making SW accountable for their actions.

Well the first obvious step is to stop the breeding machine, which includes Artificial insemination and making females breed in unnatural ages,

if we don't do that this problem will still be here in 100 years,

are there any current open sea pens?

I haven't seen the doc, but my opinion on this kind of thing is very simple: my money doesn't go to support organisations who keep animals in captivity. I don't go to sea parks, I don't go to zoos, when we were in Thailand and got 'diverted' to the snake park I sat on the bus with DH.

If people stopped going then companies would stop making money. Yes, there is a short-term issue about what to 'do' with the animals in captivity, but the only way to stop the cycle is to block the profit, imo.

I don't think it will have much of an impact sadly.
People like to see whales, dolphinsand other large mammals in captivity.
Whilst there is still a market for it they will exist.
I won't go to seaworld and encourage others not too, but most people don't think of the big picture.
A friend of mine was doing a swim with dolphins experience, I explained how wild dolphins are caught for this, many being killed. But she just wanted the experience, and didn't want to hear it.
Out of sight out of mind.

Suggest you actually read up on Keiko before just saying 'he died mere months etc'.

He actually migrated indepently for thousands of miles before his death, feeding himself during those months and his last few years where he was free to come and go as he pleased was infinitely better than his captivity. He also mixed with ther orcas off and on. He died of pneumonia, which is the lost common cause of death of captive whales (so hardly surprising since he spent 90% of his life in captivity) and although his lifespan was Hal tht of a wild male orca, it was greater than the average lifespan of a captive orca, so again, considering how much of his life was spent in substandard captivity and in poor health, he actually did pretty well.

Seaworld can supply their own orcas these days through captive breeding of their own stock. They are not allowed to import whales from other countries or capture them themselves.

Most captive whales have been born in captivity and whilst they would be very poor candidates for release that just nt justify their continued captivity for entertainment purposes. Especially since many of the reasons they can't fend for themselves is because of seawoda actions ie teeth drilling, which then require flushing out x3 times a day to clear out old food.

There are multiple organisations in the US who are ready to step up with viable options for caring for currently captive whales, such as sea pens etc, plus the home nations of captured whales have also historically stepped in as well. Funding is not the issue here.

Seaworld will not give up their cash cows until forced to do so by law and publi pressure.

Read 'death at seaworld' - it covers the same material as blackfish but in more detail.

Should clarify, most of today's captive whales are born in captivity

I think Blackfish will have an impact, Post Brancheau their revenues have dropped and more videos on youtube of Tillikum refusing to take part in shows, its lost the pazz'azz it once had.

I think its time now, If circus's were around now from the 1920's making bears ride bikes and lions jump through burning hoops we'd be horrified, but SeaWorld still exist's its like the last Taboo.

I will never go back to Seaworld or any of their affliated parks, I say that with complete confidence and as someone who is likely to be visiting Florida again within the next 12-18 months.

It's not just about one documentary, watch The Cove too it gives a lot more info and watch look up the Sea Shepherd society.
Seaworld are directly involved in Whale killing, they use their money and power to make sure regulations aren't enforced, tightened or changed.

The don't give a shit about the animals they care a out they only care for money.

The issue of Inbreeding will be prevalent too,

I would suggest you do more research yourself you don't seem to understand all the facts.

Me? why not? ado you have a background in Orca's?

howling that's already an issue many many calfs are dying at an alarming rate in captivity lately.

Yeah reminds me slightly of purebred dogs, expensive but so Inbred there falling apart.

Yeah Orkid, in San Diego has had loads of Miscarriages and keeps being impregnanted.

They are also impregnanted years before they would start breeding in the wild.

Suggest you actually read up on Keiko before just saying 'he died mere months etc'.

I don't need to do more research on Keiko. I just didn't feel the need to reel off extensive facts about him. If other people want to do their own research then they can.

He actually died of malnutrition and pneumonia. He never met his real family. He died within 15 months.

I'm not saying that I don't support orcas being released back into their natural environment BUT it's never going to be the Free Willy happy ending.

I would suggest you do more research yourself you don't seem to understand all the facts.

Is that direct at me? If so, what facts don't I understand?