Question on behalf of DS1 - Who is BU?

[HarrietSchulenberg]

DS1 (aged 13 and 3 weeks) knows that if he is out he needs to be back by the time it gets dark. This is not negotiable and he knows it. Last weekend he missed his curfew and was grounded for 7 days. Today I lifted his grounding 2 days early as he had been exceptionally well behaved and very helpful during the week.

This afternoon he went out with his friends. He was not home before dark, in fact he did not get home until a good 40 minutes after it was dark. His Dad and I both tried to ring him but he switched both of us to Voicemail. H was at home but I wasn't, and Ds1 knew this. We both sent him texts to ask where he was, and mine included the information that, as he was late again, he was grounded for 2 weeks. He replied to H that he was "across the road" and to me "I'm at (Friend)'s house though". He arrived home about 10 minutes after the texts were sent, by which time I was back so H and I were both in together, and he launched into a tirade about how I was being unreasonable to ground him again as a) he was "only at (Friend)'s house" and b) it is perfectly OK to walk around in the dark as he knows our town well and knows it's safe .

I say the 2 week grounding stands as a) he knows the rule and he decided to break it by staying out after dark, b) "across the road" could mean quite a big area, especially in teenager-speak, c) his Dad doesn't know where "(Friend)'s house" is and Ds1 knows that, d) it is not safe for a 13 year old boy to walk around on his own in the dark, especially when wearing all black clothing and an attitude.

Ds1 thinks I am being unduly harsh and launched a screamy protest in the style of a toddler, stamping upstairs and bellowing a la Horrid Henry. Apparently I am the only parent in the world who would insist on being in before dark and grounding him for what is "merely" a second offence.

I have decided to throw it open to the Court of Mumsnet to determine who is being unreasonable here.

Mmmm I'm on the fence.

His behaviour has been rude, full of tantrums and he has broken clear rules - the 2 week grounding must stand.

However explain that you will drop it to 8 days if he can follow rules/be polite for the next week.

Explain to him how he needs to voice his opinion if he believes you are not being fair. Tell him you want calm discussion and mature negotiation before an event rather then a paddy after pushing boundaries.

I think it very dangerous to be wearing black in he dark. There are no street lights on the roads around me and you have to have your main car beams on to see any body in black clothing. They are invisible otherwise. Give the problem to your son. How can he solve it? What can he suggest? Is there something reflective he could wear/carry?

Lastly hanging out in the park after dark is a no for me. Hanging out at a friends house is fine as ling as you have an address. Can he text and tell you 'I'm at X's house which is number 23, Gertrude road'

I think you need to wipe the slate clean and start again. He has been very rude, but you have been a bit "heavy".

My ds is 12. He goes to school in our nearest town. He isn't allowed to walk home from the station after dark, because it's 20 minutes along windy country lanes and people drivelike maniacs. But if he had to be home by dark, he wouldn't be able to go to any after school clubs- never mind to a friend's house. So we have a rule that he texts me to tell me where he is. Specifically. And if he goes somewhere else, he texts me again. And if he wants to be later than a specific train- which gets him home at 6- he has to ask. Not tell, ask!

Oh, and the "track suit brigade" comment made me - you might want to rethink?

You are the unreasonable one here, 'before dark' for a 13 year old is ridiculous, he is probably embarrassed to say to his friends, and 2 weeks grounding is over the top.

Surely he is either home by dark - whenever you choose to define it as certainly ambiguous - or he lets you know where he is and you agree a time for his return or for you to collect. Should he fail to do so then he is grounded. His reaction sounds enough to be grounded to me but I do think you need to negotiate a bit.

When my daughter was about that age she asked me to stop ringing her mobile a) if she wasn't back from school at the usual time b) if she wasn't back for supper at the usual time (6.30). She said it was embarrassing and her friends parents did not do that.

Which I thought was almost certainly true. I worked at home then, whereas lots of parents would still be out in offices. And not all families eat together at the same time each night.

So we reached an agreement. If she wasn't coming home from school she would ring and tell me where was. (At a mate's house or down the High Street.) I would assume that she would be in for supper and keep food warm for her. But if she wasn't going to be home until later, she would ring me.

Because I treated her as an emerging adult and listened to what she had to say, we reached an agreement that has worked.

I think 14 days is too long.

I think "before dark" is a poor curfew because the time of nightfall changes. It's much better to have a set time.

Perhaps ground him for a shorter time and say if he sticks to the current curfew (translated to a fixed time rather than dependent upon nightfall) until the end of term, you can talk about making it later after that?

You are both BU, he is pushing the boundaries (as teens do) and you are treating him as a child. My parents were very strict when I was young, never allowed into town alone etc one day they let me go, but told me I had to be back an hour later. Now town was 20 mind away by bus (and back) and my friends were late so I pushed the limits and stayed out for 3 hours, didn't get in contact (pre mobiles) and my parents were on the verge of calling the police. At the time I thought HUGE overreaction, now I'm a mother I see that its tough to let go of the apron strings. However the harder you are the more he'll rebel.

Just as a btw, I he was in a house chances are curtains closed early, they are here. Even though it's not dark dark, lights go on at 3.30/4. Once lights go on its blinds & curtains closed so I've no idea when it actually gets dark.

Anyway back to the point. If you want to avoid this, 14 days grounding is too much, a week or less is suitable to punishment. But you both need to have a grown up conversation about realistic expectations.

Hi folks
Right, Ds1 and I have had a chat and agreed that he can stay out until 6, which is when we have tea. I've also reduced his grounding to one week as long as he accepts the new rules, and he has accepted that the grounding was for breaking rules and not answering his phone rather than me being deliberately mean to him.

In return, he has to ring or text me to let me know where he is when it gets dark (about 4.30 here at the moment), and he's perfectly capable of prizing his face away from a gaming screen or whatever to look out of a window to check. If he's at a friend's house that's fine, and he says he probably will be at that time. He has some friends who have to be home by 5 for family meals so he's not going to be one of the first to leave, which he's pleased about.

He doesn't accept that he's vulnerable on his own wearing his distinctive choice of clothing but he's the one out there wearing the stuff so he's got to learn from his own experience. I know he's been verbally attacked by other kids for looking "different" because he's told me before, and I've seen it from a distance too. He handled it rather well at the time as the group he was with stood up to them and just carried on walking, even when one of them threw a plastic bottle at them. But I guess that's one of the trials of growing up in an insular small town in the armpit of nowhere.

Anyway, we seem to be sorted, at least for now, so thanks for the advice.

YABVU

Good that it's sorted.

That's good Harriet, and it's great he's got the confidence to dress how he wants to

Just out of interest, has anyone got any opinions on whether the same goes for 13 YO girls walking back from wherever after dark?

I let mine when she was that age. I just taught her to be safe. Keep to well lit busier streets and walk back with friends if possible.

It is pitch black by 4.30 - mine are not even home from school before it gets dark!

Off to read thread...

We can't keep them 100% safe unless we keep them under house arrest. Round where I live, I'm a little more wary of the late nights when people are coming out of pubs etc. Late winter afternoons are fine.

Thanks Cat.

I'm not asking from a feminist/goady POV btw, just that I've got the same problem as the OP with what time to get DD to come home by.

I would be up for house arrest going on the cheek I've had off her this morning Frau

I'd go.out on a limb and say teenage boys are at more.of a risk of attack than a teenage girl. Especially adding in the goth stuff. I've rescued a couple of goth teens from a gang of kids who were trying to beat them with sticks. I've also been a bit of a goth and know you do come in for some stick.

It is hard, but op does have to.let her ds find his own coping skills. Sounds like they've come up with a reasonable compromise.

You're being a bit of a knob insisting on a 'dark' curfew for a teenager. It will be dark when he comes home from school! Teenagers are some kind of anti-vampires who need to be in before the sun sets.

He is being U for lying and breaking curfew, but to be honest I would find it hard to have respect for someone making such U rules.

The time is unreasonable, the meeting it is not. I think it should be a set time throughout the year.

Given his age expect more tantrums to follow.

The OP's not being a nob trying to work out how best to keep her DS safe whois

She'd be much more of one if she didn't give a bollocks and let him do as he pleases.

Well done for sorting it. I do agree that he does need to be punished for breaking rules.

Why does it get so much harder as they get older