to think that it is not ok to be rude about other people's bad English skills?

[bluecheeseforbreakfast]

I have read a few threads recently that say how uneducated and stupid people who don't spell words properly are. there have been times on mumsnet that my opinion has been belittled because of the spelling/grammer in my posts.

I am dyslexic, I didn't learn to read untill I was 10 (I just looked at the biff and chip pictures and guessed what was going on, the teacher would correct me and I would memorise the story, I had to read to same book over and over untill I could "read" the entire book but I had actually just memorised the words.) I am not stupid, I have a degree, I read newspapers regularly, I have learnt a second language in he last 3 years, I have had a profesional job that I loved (I am now on maternity leave). I am just really crap at spelling.

I feel so stupid and unwelcome when I read negative things about spelling. I think that one of the great things about mumsnet is how open and accepting people are about many different issues but it still seems to be ok for posters to be rude and mean about people with bad English skills.

If you were to start a thread saying "AIBU to not want to read a friend's facebook status because they said their instead of there?" there is a high chance you will get lots of posters saying yes, never have anything to do with the fool again! If you started a thread saying "AIBU to not want to listen to my friend because they have a stutter and it anoys me when they struggle to get their words out?" I would assume that the concensus would be (rughtly so) yabvvvu.

I have a baby who goes to sleep at 5.45, my friends all have small children so they are at home in the evening, my dp works nights. I feel really lonely but mumsnet is a great way to make myself feel like I am have meaningful conversations with other adults, it would take me ages to post if I was to check each spelling that I wasn't 100% sure about.

Often on the people who can't spell are so stupid type threads people say "oh but not dyslexic people, I didn't mean dyslexic people" 1 in 10 people are dyslexic, often you won't know if a friend is dyslexic as it isn't the sort of thing that often crops up in conversation.

AIBU to think that learning difficulties/disabilities/differances should be treacted as any other physical/mental difficulty/disability/differance?

YABU in two respects - I simply don't believe that the UK has a far higher proportion of dyslexic people than other countries, particularly when that recent study found that literacy levels in young people here were amongst the lowest in the developed world.

Secondly, there's a difference between dyslexia and poor ability and lack of attention, which might be reflected in spoken language as well. Obviously not an issue on mumsnet, but it might colour responses on Facebook...

I'm currently working in Belgium, and have noticed less spelling mistakes amongst FB friends from here, writing in their second in even third language.

Text speak does annoy me and just comes across as lazy and childish.

I would never correct spelling or grammar unless asked to do so. What will stop me bothering to reply is someone who can't punctuate or use paragraphs. This makes the post impossible to read without hard work, so I move on. The OPs post is exactly the opposite, very readable!

The odd spello is not an issue on a forum like this, especially when so many use those awful phone things. :-)

However anyone writing professionally, for publication or for school/university needs to take the time to get it right. There are tools available to do so.

Yanbu - correcting someone else's spelling or grammer without invitation to do so is incredibly rude. I wouldn't worry OP, they come across badly not you.

To my shame I used to be pretty intolerant of bad spelling and grammar. I wouldn't be rude to people/posters, but would be internally judging. I particularly did this when online dating - bad profiles or emails would be instantly discarded.

Then I met my DH who is pretty severely dyslexic. He actually had someone proof his online profile and made gargantuan efforts sending early messages so got through my filters.

Now, I understand dyslexia. I never really thought about it before. I see how it affects him, and how he's been made feel in his life as a result (called stupid etc.). I see how it's not about not being able to spell as such. It's just a massive disconnect in his brain when communicating in writing. I feel very ashamed for having been so judgemental in the past. I would never judge like that now.

OP I am dreadful at spelling but extremely good at Maths I often wonder where the super spellers and grammar queens sit on the Maths spectrum or the ballroom dance spectrum or the dressmaking spectrum for that matter. Whenever I see those posts where people are being arseholes about someone's spelling or grammar I remind myself we all have our own talents. It is at best rude and at worst completely obnoxious to belittle people over their spelling.

Genuine question here, certainly not having a dig or anything....

I understand that dyslexia can affect spelling but I didn't realise it had any bearing on grammar, I.e knowing when to use the right there/their/they're?

Or does it?

Also, as in my son's case, it can often involve auditory processing issues. This is particularly problematical because auditory learning is a common way to compensate for dyslexia.

Here is a dictionary definition:

a variable often familial learning disability involving difficulties in acquiring and processing language that is typically manifested by a lack of proficiency in reading, spelling, and writing

It's also important to appreciate that English is a relatively difficult language to master, with many exceptions to its general spelling, pronunciation, and usage rules.

So, a genuine follow up to writer's post....

I can see that some people may struggle with there/their. I personally don't understand the struggle (for a non-dyslexic person), but I have my own grammatical struggles which may seem baffling to others.

It's less obvious to me why "they're" should be a problem (not just for dyslexics, but for everyone), being a contraction of two words that would always accompany an inner thought of "they are". So, (and sorry if this sounds really terrible/nosy/rude), does a dyslexic person think "they are" perfectly clearly, but is unable to distinguish "they're" from "there" or "their" when writing it down? Would a dyslexic person tend to avoid such contractions?

Scone I read (just this morning) that Italy has a unusually low frequency of dyslexia, attributed to the relatively simplicity of the language - 33 letter combos to make 25 phonemes, compared to 1120 ways to spell 40 phonemes in English.

I think dyslexia would be taken a lot more seriously, if so many people didn't claim to be dyslexic when they're just bad at spelling.

It's like when people feel a bit down but they automatically say they're 'depressed'. Or someone claiming they were 'bullied' because someone said something sarky to them.

Anyway, YANBU OP. As long as I can understand what someone is saying, I don't see a problem.

I must say, you've shown no signs whatsoever of dyslexia or bad spelling/grammar in this thread...though obviously I'm not an expert.

I think it is wrong to pull someone up on their spelling/maths skills. It's a cheap shot.

I noted that some lovely person on the other thread didn't get it that people were not able to work out percentages/division etc.

I went on to do A level maths, no problem. My child, however, just cannot grasp how percentages etc work. I have sat their patiently, time after time, trying to explain the basic of fractions etc, but they just does not get it, but that is not to say that they haven't tried :(

I also wrote a letter of complaint to the equally 'nice' maths teacher for calling my child stupid [grr]

For goodness sake people, there are things in life that we excel in and things in life that we don't. It doesn't make us better than anyone else and it doesn't make them better than you.

For what it's worth, my child is fantastic at sport and has won numerous competitions up and down the country.

I remember drawing what was meant to be an apple for an art project and I ended up getting shouted at and given detention, because it was so crap. I was mortified

An apple that was crap enough to warrant detention?!
That made me chuckle!! It's just something green and round, how did you manage to get that so wrong? Lol. Your post has put a lovely smile on my face

I am a complete pedant but not on here. It's not the place (unless as many pps have said, someone is being snarky about someone else's spelling and grammar).

The one thing I have (gently) suggested in the past is paragraphs. Some posters do type reams without paragraph breaks (usually when on their phones I think) and it does make posts incredibly hard to read. I don't do it often though and only mention it if posters maybe aren't getting very many responses but obviously are looking for help.

It is rude and derails threads.English is only the third language for some of us!

I think a lot of the time we're comparing apples and oranges here. I'm the first to admit that I'm a pedant and hate seeing bad spelling etc., but there's a huge difference between the odd typo in a post that is otherwise well composed and easy to understand, and posts written in what amounts to gobbledygook, with no thought to reader comprehension, full of hideous text speak and deliberate 'cute' poor spelling - 'gawjus' is one (nasty) example often quoted.

Of course not everyone is expected to be great at spelling any more than at sewing, dancing or anything else, but if you want others to read your post, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to at least try to make it presentable. If you were running a petrol station, you'd provide pumps rather than buckets and jugs and expect people to pour it in manually, no? It's about facilitating the process of communication.

I think it is wrong to pull someone up on their spelling/maths skills.

For spelling, I don't always agree it's a cheap shot.

Pointing out that someone has spelled (for example) "separately" incorrectly is just annoyingly pointless, unless the poster is on some kind of superiority trip about spelling.

Pointing out that someone has spelled "bear" incorrectly, (for example) in the phrase "bear (correct)/bare (incorrect) in mind", is usually informative, because you are implicitly trying to explain the origin of the phrase and encourage understanding.

I would also note that misuse and liberal conflation of there/their isn't the same as not being good at spelling. By and large, the words are spelled correctly.

YANBU. English is a live language. It develops around and engages with what's going on in the world currently. My dad is a lexicographer (writes dictionaries) and is fascinated by how our language changes.

There are times and places for perfect spelling and grammar. I wouldn't be filled with confidence if I saw a misspelled sign in a hospital, for instance, or grammatical errors in a school report. But if someone on here, meaning absolutely no harm to anyone, writes a post peppered with text speak and exclamation marks, I cringe when people jump on her/him for it. Pick your battles, people. Seriously.

To me, it makes people look pretty desperate for admiration and, I would even say, poorly educated when they do that. Because a holistic education teaches you how to engage with other people in a respectful manner. It's distinctly un-classy, lame bandwagon-jumping.

Stephen Fry thinks so too.

Maid That is interesting about Italian. Where I live (Florida), Spanish is the most common second language; it similar to Italian in that regard.

I am actually a professional pedant. I write and edit for a living. But the experience of having raised a child with dyslexia and other learning difficulties and of having worked with an adult literacy organization has really opened my eyes about the challenges many people face with English. And I believe that, as someone relatively skilled with language, I have a duty to speak out.

And I agree about paragraphs. Especially as I get older, I need those paragraph breaks.

Profondo That is a great clip!

Someone on one of the other threads posted this:

paintingthegreyarea.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/literacy-privilege/

Dyslexia is actually quite common so it is unsurprising you might come across quite a number of people with it.

I think it is also important to understand that it is relative. There are always going to be people who are better at some aspects of written and spoken English than others. They may have a higher baseline of acceptable literacy that puts many of us, even skilled writers, in the "needs improvement" category.

Which reminds me, I need to get back to work revising a project of mine that I submitted to an outside editor; there are many more edits than I would have anticipated most of them a pedantry too far.

YANBU!!!