to think that it is not ok to be rude about other people's bad English skills?

[bluecheeseforbreakfast]

I have read a few threads recently that say how uneducated and stupid people who don't spell words properly are. there have been times on mumsnet that my opinion has been belittled because of the spelling/grammer in my posts.

I am dyslexic, I didn't learn to read untill I was 10 (I just looked at the biff and chip pictures and guessed what was going on, the teacher would correct me and I would memorise the story, I had to read to same book over and over untill I could "read" the entire book but I had actually just memorised the words.) I am not stupid, I have a degree, I read newspapers regularly, I have learnt a second language in he last 3 years, I have had a profesional job that I loved (I am now on maternity leave). I am just really crap at spelling.

I feel so stupid and unwelcome when I read negative things about spelling. I think that one of the great things about mumsnet is how open and accepting people are about many different issues but it still seems to be ok for posters to be rude and mean about people with bad English skills.

If you were to start a thread saying "AIBU to not want to read a friend's facebook status because they said their instead of there?" there is a high chance you will get lots of posters saying yes, never have anything to do with the fool again! If you started a thread saying "AIBU to not want to listen to my friend because they have a stutter and it anoys me when they struggle to get their words out?" I would assume that the concensus would be (rughtly so) yabvvvu.

I have a baby who goes to sleep at 5.45, my friends all have small children so they are at home in the evening, my dp works nights. I feel really lonely but mumsnet is a great way to make myself feel like I am have meaningful conversations with other adults, it would take me ages to post if I was to check each spelling that I wasn't 100% sure about.

Often on the people who can't spell are so stupid type threads people say "oh but not dyslexic people, I didn't mean dyslexic people" 1 in 10 people are dyslexic, often you won't know if a friend is dyslexic as it isn't the sort of thing that often crops up in conversation.

AIBU to think that learning difficulties/disabilities/differances should be treacted as any other physical/mental difficulty/disability/differance?

[ProfondoRosso]

I feel similarly to you, Scone. I teach at university level (while doing my PhD) and, if an essay has spelling mistakes, I will correct them, but that's an academic context, so I'd be a lousy teacher if I didn't.

But when I see it online, posters going back and correcting their spelling mistakes in further posts, I think, "Why? What you wrote is perfectly understandable, with or without typos." And I wonder if it's because they think someone's going to come along and sniff at them for it. Literacy privilege is a big deal, and we must remember that. I consider myself a good speller, but that's a skill I developed when I was in primary school! I'm not going to trumpet on about it, as if I've brought about world peace. It's important to recognise that, for each of us who finds spelling easy, there are plenty of people for whom it isn't, through no fault of their own.

[bluecheeseforbreakfast]

I would avoid writting the're, I use they're regularly when speaking but never when writing, I'd just write they are.

My phone has predictive spelling options so when I post from my phone ( as I am now) there are less spelling mistakes. When I am using my laptop I will often use a synonym a effectively dum down my language because I am limited to the words I can spell.

I would say that dyslexia is common in the UK because English is a bloody hard illogical language. The UK education system is also very intense when compared to some other countries, I would imagine teachers are hyper aware of learning disabilities/differences as their targets could be effected by children with undiagnosed dyslexia.

Some countries dont acknowledge dyslexia at all, I met a woman from Iraq whilst studying the language of tge country we live in, she was tge same age as me, incredibly bright, she was articulate and witty when speaking but she had never learnt to read or wright because dyslexia wasn't recognised. I spoke to her about my experience at school and she cried, she said how disappointed she was, she felt like she had wasted her life ( she worked as a cleaner) she had left school because she and her teachers assumed she was stupid.

She did learn to read and write ( in our mutual 2nd language) with tge right support.

[SharpLily]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as dyslexia actually has very little to do with the actual words but is about how the brain processes language, surely the complexity of a language or otherwise should make very little difference?

I'd agree with the poster who earlier pointed out that it's a label that's often abused to excuse laziness, which makes it much harder for genuine dyslexics to be taken seriously. My mother once read that dyslexics struggle to tell left from right, so now whenever anyone complains about her poor direction giving she tells them it's because of her dyslexia . She's not dyslexic at all, she's just shit at directions, the same as me.

I think the English educational system is far more advanced in handling conditions such as dyslexia (and other additional needs) than many other supposedly advanced nations. In France for example there are very few schools prepared to take special steps to accommodate that kind of thing - you either follow the pattern or they're not interested.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as dyslexia actually has very little to do with the actual words but is about how the brain processes language, surely the complexity of a language or otherwise should make very little difference?

It is about how the brain processes language; the more complex the language, the more challenging that processing becomes.

[bluecheeseforbreakfast]

When I had my dyslexia assesment the educational psychologist explained that they diagnose dyslexia by comparing skills such as spelling, remebering sequences of numbers/letters verbal reasoning, saying the alphabet backwards (?) 3d puzzels and word puzzles (and some other stuff that I can't remeber). Dyslexia is diagnosed if there is a notable differance in ability between the areas that dyslexic people commonly have issues with (spelling and saying the bloody alphabet backwards among other things) and areas where dyslexic people commonly do better than non dyslexic people (verbal reasoning and 3d puzzels), there is a thourough assesment which lasts many hours, you are not just diagnosed as having dyslexia if you do badly on spelling tests.

Sharplily, I have never heared anyone say they are dyslexic to excuse laziness, why would anyone want people to think that they are dyslexic when they are not. It sounds like you know some odd people.

My 2nd language is Swedish, compared to English there are considerably fewer blends that make the same sound, there are also considerably fewer exceptions to spelling rules, I think a Swedish dyslexic person is still "as dyslexic" as an English dyslexic person but written Swedish is much more simple so there are fewer oppertunities to make mistakes.

[SharpLily]

It sounds like you know some odd people.

Definitely .

It's true though, as Worra said:

It's like when people feel a bit down but they automatically say they're 'depressed'. Or someone claiming they were 'bullied' because someone said something sarky to them.

Or saying they were beaten up at home when their brother gave them a Chinese burn.

People do these things and it tends to make others sceptical of the world at large. It's amazing what people will say if they think there's something in it for them.

[ProfondoRosso]

SharpLily, I think it's key, though, that in any of the cases you mention, or cite Worra mentioning, that our first reaction is to check our skepticism and give people the benefit of the doubt.

[RIZZ0]

I'm torn on this. If you have something like dyslexia that impedes your ability to write and spell then I find it abhorrent and bullying that anyone would take the piss.

However, if you do not, and you have an education given to you (which we are lucky to have), and you can't ge bothered to grasp the basics then it does (quietly) piss me off a bit. I'm sick to death of people texting me using bad grammar and spelling, the two most irritating being 'too' instead of 'to' and 'an' instead of 'and'...

I wouldn't however, dream of picking anybody up on it publicly, because bad manners is worse than bad grammar an spelling!

I agree you wrote your posts beautiful and appreciate that that's not easy for you.

[magnumicelolly]

It's rude to be rude about it, but I can't see how it is rude to correct someone, if done politely! I can't see how politely pointing out an error is wrong. Surely better than leaving someone to continue making the same mistake. Fair enough, it may not matter on here, but it may matter in a future situation. For example, applying for a job, where someone may be written off before the interview stage based on a spelling error in their application.

[SharpLily]

Granted. Unfortunately in my experience, the scepticism is the appropriate reaction far more often than benefit of the doubt.

[Lastofthepodpeople]

I agree. I think it's very rude. I also find that people will often 'correct' others on their usage of words, when the difference is either cultural or (as happened to DH recently) they were actually just plain wrong.

Very rude.

[fanjofarrow]

Fair point, OP. I admit that I've bitched on here about people who spell ridiculous as 'rediculous' - not entirely seriously. I am guilty of saying ''unless they are dyslexic'' too. I feel a bit guilty now!

I hope that nobody genuinely believes that people who can't spell are ''stupid''. I certainly don't think that.

My fiance is dyslexic. He struggles quite badly with spelling. When he was a child, his mum refused to accept that he was dyslexic, so he didn't get the help he needed (she still refuses to admit it now, and he is 31 years old!)

My best female friend is also dyslexic. Both she and my DP are highly intelligent people with degrees from good universities.

YANBU.

[DoesZingBumpLookBigInThis]

I'm Hungarian and I studied hard to get my English as a Second Language Certificate.

I find it appalling when native English people use their own language incorrectly, let it be grammar, spelling, meaning etc.

I correct people and I don't mind being corrected - how else could we all learn and improve?

I am very patient with non-English speakers and talk slower and use a simpler vocabulary if needed - I think that is respectful and helpful.

I love languages and I think that anyone who is unable to use their own language correctly needs help, encouragment and correcting - best done privately though to avoid embarrassment.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

The other side of people claiming to have dyslexia when they do not (frankly have never encountered this, to my knowledge) is that there are many people with milder cases (and even more severe cases) of dyslexia that have gone undiagnosed, even in educational systems like those in the UK and US, which are generally pretty sensitive to these issues.

It is also important to note that an auditory processing disorder when present complicates things considerably. My son's learning disabilities were discovered early due in part to speech issues. His speech problems were a result of the way his brain processes sound into words.

He is an adult, and thanks to very good educational support through the years, is a fully employed and productive member of society, but he still does not read and write to a very high standard, and he still has trouble with pronouncing certain words. He has strong compensating skills; he is is an accomplished athlete and is very good at all things mechanical. He is also a very kind and decent person, always sympathetic to people in difficult situations who are struggling because he knows what that is like. I am very proud of him.

[bluecheeseforbreakfast]

Great point scone, especially in older generations dyslexia was rarely is ever diagnosed so there are many people who have dyslexia but don't have an official diagnosis. the cost of an educational psychotherapist's assesment would I imagine be fairly high, people who have left the education system don't have much to gain bu getting an official statement apart from having some paperwork to show people like sharplily

Doeszingbump with all due respect I don't think some well meaning posters pointing out spelling/grammer mistakes on a forum is going to succeed in teaching me (and others who strugle with written english) to spell write correctly where years of education has failed. For me some words make sence, I have images and rhymes and strange explanations that help me spell words (for example I know that "there" is written when decribing a place because it contains the word "here" ((the other "hear" has the word "ear" in it so that is to do with listening/hearing/sound)) which is also to do with location, the word "their" has an I in it, "I" is a person so "their" is to do with people. All very confusing!) So a poster saying I think you will find the word you are looking for is of not off doesn't really help me.

[redexpat]

It depends. I'm quite forgiving of spelling, less so with grammar. If I can understand what you mean, then I go with the flow. Sometimes there are posters who can't articulate what it is they're trying to say, so it's very difficult to understand their issue and reply. It also depends on context - if I was reading a job application and you made mistakes, I would be quite unforgiving. With spelling and grammar checks on computers you really do have no excuse. But MN, well it's something we do in our free time, so who cares.

TBH it riles me that so many people leave school not knowing the following:

• correct use of apostophes
• they're/there/their
• too/to/two
• should have (not of)

but I direct my anger at rubbish english teachers (only the rubbish ones, not the fabulous ones), and not at individuals on MN.

Zing raises a good point about needing to be corrected in order to learn.

[Bubbles1066]

I would never comment on a person's spelling, grammar etc on the internet as you don't know if they have learning differences or difficulties or English as a second language etc. Its not an English essay. I try to proof read but sometimes you don't notice mistakes and then there is the dreaded autocorrect on my iPhone ... That's been responsible for some shockers!

[bumperella]

I don't think many people post on forums in order to improve speeling / grammer. Good job, really.

So long as a post is easy to understand then I don't see why anyone should object or nit-pick.

[themaltesefalcon]

DoesZingBumpLookBigInThis, you have my admiration. Hungarian and English are so utterly different, but you have certainly achieved written proficiency in English, at least. I spent six weeks in your country once and barely learnt to say anything beyond "kusinam," despite my best intentions. Hats off! :)

[DoesZingBumpLookBigInThis]

falcon
thanks! and I hope you had a good time!

[Snowbility]

I think if someone has requested you comment on their spelling and grammar fine, but otherwise it's rude...even if it being done with the best of intentions, it's just plain rude. If you genuinely can't understand a post then it's fine to ask for it to be explained again but even then it's not an excuse to release your inner pedant you should tread carefully.

However, getting at a rude, pedantic poster by picking at their spelling and grammar is fair game and makes me smile with joy!

[SharpLily]

apart from having some paperwork to show people like sharplily

Are you telling me you've never come across people who exaggerate? Never ever? You must live in a very nice world.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

Why is it that people are "lazy" if they misuse grammar or misspell something? Some people might just really struggle and despite their education, just not get it.

[LimitedEditionLady]

This happened to me the other day,I think the person who was abusing me on the thread really had an issue with me having a differing point of view to be honest and their crap way of trying to argue with me was to bully me about spelling and say im stupid.They actually looked stupid really as they lost control and the insults were nothing to do with the discussion.