to think young people are being terribly treated at the moment

[seades]

My brother graduated from a RG uni in the summer and has found getting a graduate job very difficult. At the moment he is interning for free at a PR firm (which is what he wants to do) in the day and working in a bar in the evening and weekends (whenever he can get shifts). Most weeks he is working 60-70 hours a week and in return he can barely afford to eat and pay the rent in his house which is an absolute dump. I was talking to a friend today and she said that this sort of thing is common place and that it teaches young people the value of hard work. AIBU to think that she is talking rubbish, this sort of demands on young people are unacceptable. and that young people are getting a terribly raw deal at the moment

Mickey Mouse:
Golf management has a very good post employment rate with many grads getting fantastic jobs eg on the Ryder cup tour. Statistically much better employment rate than a degree in english

Yanbu op.

Student debt and tuition fees make this the worst time ever to go to uni. I think the number of places should be reduced and fees paid by govt again. We don't need 50 per cent of young people with a degree, the jobs are not there for them.

What we do need is more encouragement/incentives for young people to go into the Sciences and Engineering.

I don't see what the Govt is doing towards that.

I have had three interns.

One used the experience to get a really good job in the same field and said she was told she stood out at interview due to her intern experience.

One used the experience to get a place in a masters.

The other was offered a job in our company.

Having said that we made sure we gave them very good experience with challenging work. They did no admin or dogsbody stuff, they were there to learn

We haven't got the energy to revolt Laurie

If it helps, IME most of my friends have had 2-3 shit years after graduating but by the age of 25/26 most of us have flats and ok jobs.
The ones of us that have partners (ie. 2 salaries) have started to think that getting a mortgage in 5/10 years might not be impossible. My single friends don't think they'll ever get mortgages by themselves.

I couldn't afford to do an internship but I was super lucky and got to do a funded masters + got a job I could start at the bottom from.

What we do need is more encouragement/incentives for young people to go into the Sciences and Engineering.

The difficulty with these courses is that students have to work out how to pick and choose between the different courses. They are not all the same. Students also have to accept that they will be studying a first degree and a Masters at the very minimum or more likely a PhD in the chosen specialism.

It has been interesting doing the university open day round with DD. She wants to study Biochemistry and has attended all the subject talks and seen the labs but has had no interest in looking at accommodation (other than ensuring online that there is some and that it will do).

Talking to other parents, their offspring have all looked at the accommodation and skipped the subject talks but these students have all been going for courses like Accountancy which I guess are a lot more generic.

sadly worry it is likely that the earnings of the accountants will far outstrip those of your daughter (assuming she stays in Science-and then there is the debt from all those degrees)

giveme makes a valid point IMHO

Arohaitis - I dont disagree at all. DD is unlikely to earn a bean as a scientist at least in the UK. As PP have said she will need to be flexible not just about getting experience but also about location.

"IMO the big issue for many young people is the lack of good advice on how to develop and realise career plans"

This - there is much less demand for liberal arts and other fluffy type degrees than there are people who want to do them, with the result that they find no jobs when they graduate and wind up having to work for free.

The other problem is so much of the national wealth is being sucked into propping up the elderly and bankers that kids today are being dealt very crappy hands before they've even started their life.

There is definitely more opportunity overseas - I'm surprised more people don't advise kids to emigrate

The problem I see for the first generation students is that not only are they easily tempted by the highly vocational degrees (which appear to lead to guaranteed jobs) but quite often they will also be encouraged by family/friends to go to their local university.

So they end up with a narrow degree without even having had the chance to cut the apron strings. They have narrow career opportunities because of course choice but also will be less prepared to move elsewhere for work.

YANBU. I don't feel so sorry for the older generation, because they had the opportunity to buy affordable housing, get a job with a final salary pension scheme, etc.. If they didn't do so, then more fools then. Young people today have to contend with the realities of life far earlier. Its sad, but being intelligent and hard working is not enough these days and success in life seems more dependent on having a family wealthy and willing enough to help out.

Some of the older generation are so entitled. FIL took early retirement on a final salary pension scheme at age 55 and never lifted a finger again. And it sounds like a pretty easy job with none of the appraisals, working late for free, etc that's expected now. His attitude is unbelievable - he thinks other people should work to support him? Why? Well, just because.

It is interesting LesMiss because of course they never worked to support the generation before them!

"What we do need is more encouragement/incentives for young people to go into the Sciences and Engineering."

Some actual facts would be more useful than the usual kneejerk responses about HE.

There are already large numbers of science and engineering graduates and by a large majority (sometimes up to 80%) they don't go into jobs in related fields, because the jobs are not there in this country in science and engineering (we invest far less in these sectors than many countries) and those science and engineering jobs that exist pay comparatively little, forcing science and engineering grads away from them. Ten or fifteen years of high-skill degree, Master's, doctorate and postdoc experience for a fixed term contract salary of 28-29k in the south-east where average house prices are over 350k and basic rents are over 1k/month anyone?

Whereas contrary to general opinion, broad liberal arts academic degrees tend to have pretty good employment rates afterwards.

Again, the target has never been 50% with a traditional undergraduate degree, and in any case that is a lot lower than the youth cohort percentage in our competitor countries, many of whom have better youth employment rates. The jobs aren't there for young people because those running the economy have designed them not to be, nothing to do with numbers of graduates.

The economic theories that have guided our economy over the last 40 years explicitly state that there should be a certain percentage of the unemployed, to keep labour values low, create labour market competition and force those who are employed to accept worse employment conditions than they otherwise would. The lack of "graduate" jobs is down to the way our economy is structured to push the cost of labour down. Look at the huge growth of internships (and workfare schemes, incidentally). If you can get "graduate" labour for free, and are encouraged to do so, why bother to pay?

One lugged books around as a porter with the library for two years before moving up to enquiries, then eventually into management.

Hmm. I have been 'lugging books' for the past year and a half. I work extremely hard and am paid a pittance: but there is no chance of progressing to enquiries or management unless I do Masters in Librarianship....which I have worked out will cost the best part of ten grand in fees, travel to uni, buying books etc etc etc.

Now I come to think of it most of my friends from uni have done post-grads of one sort or another, mostly in teaching but some in social work. We did quite a specific arts degree with a vocational element; we never expected to earn much in the field but we did think we'd stand a chance of getting some sort of job. Unfortunately by the time I graduated funding for the arts was being cut left right and centre and there were hardly any jobs out there.

I'm in my late forties, but all my Uni friends with science degrees who work in industry are on at least £50,000. In DH's circle of colleagues and customers they are on a lot more. There is a lot of money in scientific sales and bench scientists tend to progress into well paid management roles. One of DH's customers took on a postdoctoral chemist a couple of years ago for £29,000 a couple of years ago when he became disillusioned with academia. Two years on he's added another £10,000 to that and progressed to a role where he's writing papers again. We are in the north too so money goes further.

Interesting piece by a waitress who served Cameron at the recent banquet (she is also doing an internship)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/13/david-cameron-austerity-public-sector-cuts