to think young people are being terribly treated at the moment

[seades]

My brother graduated from a RG uni in the summer and has found getting a graduate job very difficult. At the moment he is interning for free at a PR firm (which is what he wants to do) in the day and working in a bar in the evening and weekends (whenever he can get shifts). Most weeks he is working 60-70 hours a week and in return he can barely afford to eat and pay the rent in his house which is an absolute dump. I was talking to a friend today and she said that this sort of thing is common place and that it teaches young people the value of hard work. AIBU to think that she is talking rubbish, this sort of demands on young people are unacceptable. and that young people are getting a terribly raw deal at the moment

yanbu

if i was born just 10 or 15 years later, my career/housing/opportunities would have been far, far bleaker. it's interesting if i can compare myself against my brother - just 14 years apart, same area, roughly same work ethic/parent support, totally different.

i've no idea how i would have been able to afford to scrape together a deposit, pay into a pension at the levels this generation are going to have to, find employment that will meet basic living needs, care for elderly parents who generally haven't saved enough to cover their own care needs, cover childcare, and so on.

my brother will simply never be able to afford to own a home in the town where we grew up, not on his wages and not with the price of houses/the deposit he'd need.

i suppose the real problem is that most young people simply aren't earning enough to cover life's essentials.

let's face it, most graduates would hope to not be on minimum wage, but even if that were true, what about non-graduates? and sadly it is true in many cases, because they've played by the rulebook that says work hard, get a degree, you'll get a job in the field of you choice.

that advice was becoming outdated for my generation, and it's completely obsolete for 20-somethings today.

you can't stretch a meager pay check so many ways, the sums don't add up. if we think my parents generation were badly prepared for their care needs (which in most cases was ignorance, or reliance on defined benefit schemes that didn't balance, or counting on house price inflation or the state - or a combination of it all), just wait another 50 or 60 years for the teens and 20-somethings of today... even if they want to prepare for future needs, they're so busy keeping afloat with the immediate costs of life there's just nothing left over!

Its not just graduates its ppl working for free on workfare as well.

Internships are just a posher version of workfare.

The problem for me is that so many of them make it difficult to employ them. I work 14 hours a week in a hotel as a shift supervisor. I've 20 years experience in the hotel trade, worked every department and in lots of different settings from a michelin restaurant with famous chef, a 5* hotel and leisure centre catering. So i know my shit.
I work have worked with lots of young people, most young enough to be my children. I would say that the attitude "what do you know" is very prevalent, as is playing with their phone, lateness with no excuse, requiring continuous supervision, rudeness, inappropriate dress/makeup. And when they are pulled up or told what to do they constantly question why or argue. They just don't seem to be getting prepared for the reality of working -turn up on time, be polite, do as you are told and appear willing to learn and you'll go far.

Christmas, from what I see of young people working, in shops and restaurants, they do a great job. From a customer's point of view, anyway.

Every year, I "employ" about 50 volunteers from a local high school for a couple of days. Without exception, these students, age 17-18, are diligent and responsible. The only complaint that I and the other supervisors have is that some of the students seem to be inseparable from their phones. Fortunately, they can multi-task better than I can single-task.

Well actually I think it does teach these kids the meaning of hard work in a way, yes, it's hard, I've been there, worked from being a child. It's life and unless as a parent you can afford to take care of them financially, this is what they have to do to build a career in a given sector and earn some real money, surely most people start out this way?

evem people in work now have to wait 2 years for any kind of emplyment rights thanks to the Tories

It sucks.

I've got a 2:1 degree and work in the same job as dh who didnt go to uni. seems like a waste of time for a lot of people now.

YNBU
Young people are getting a very raw deal at the moment.

Is it too much to aspire to ? a paid job and a roof over your head independent from your parents in your twenties,?
sadly out of reach for the young people I know.

Yanbu. Dp is at uni now, went back at 22 and will finish at 27/28. We're probably going to be living in shared housing for a long while after he finishes and we're in the middle of it all now. It's depressing and frustrating. struggle to get the hours to afford more and he's struggling to hold down a job and a full time degree justso that we can afford our current hohouse share which is really cheap for our area. We're also limited on where we can live because of commuting and my health. It's an absolute nightmare.

I am young and have SN, have lived in Asia for the past 7 years. I moved back to the UK in September after being abroad for nearly my entire life.

I had to get used to Asia but.....for nearly everything it is easierin Asia.

I translate Vietnamese so am hopeful that I can be self employed. Starting a business in Vietnam would be great if yo didn't need a local partner....

YANBU

I remember chatting to my sister probably 10 years ago and her saying that she was glad her DD was an 'only' because at least it meant she could 'help her out' when the time came. DNeice is now 20 and my sis has downsized so she is able to help DNeice get on the housing ladder - and on her part DNeice has chosen to do an OU degree rather than fork out for Uni fees.

At the time I though DSis was exaggerating, but now that my own DD is 8, I find that I am feeling the same way. DH and I are in a good position to finally buy (in our 40s) and we are looking at houses that are too big for our needs, partly because we could either downsize later and have disposable cash, or convert so that DD can have her own space without rent.

It's ridiculous really, but after years of wanting another child I am now so glad we stopped at one.

I agree. And I get really angry with the older generation who claim that young people have it easy these days. They don't. Most young people will never own their own home, for instance. Things that those of the 60+ generation took for granted.

Reminds me of a party I went to a few months ago, one lady was bemoaning the fact that her graduate son couldn't get a well paid job, couldn't afford to buy a house had huge student debts and how life was so unfair to him and other young people

A young man joined the group the son of one of the ladies, who proudly
introduced him to her friends and (much to his embarrassment) boasted how he was a very successful roofer who part owned his own business and had just bought a beautiful house just round the corner.

So yes life can be unfair to young people who want to work in the trendy jobs like PR or the media and get them selves into huge debt to do so.

But for other young people learning a skill, craft or trade in areas more mundane then trendy can reap very high rewards with hard work and the right attitude.

BTW I hired the guy to fix my roof, very reasonable rates and he did a very good job.

EveDallas, did your sister consider that by helping your niece "get on the housing ladder" (I use inverted commas because for most people it's not a ladder at all; unless you expect to earn significantly more in the future than you do now, or you expect a lump of cash from somewhere, you're likely to remain in the same type of house you're in now since it will take 25 years to pay for) she is perpetuating the problem of unaffordable housing?

House prices are a function of available money to pay for them, whether credit or the bank of mum and dad. If the older generation choose to provide help in this way, they can't complain about a problem they helped to create.

Ref Darkesteyes' comment about workfare - there was a recruitment event yesterday for young people, held by a pub near me in Liverpool, to recruit bar staff (with other duties such as cleaning toilets etc). It would be 8 weeks training for JSA only and then they'd decide if you got a job. So basically free staff for Christmas and New year with no job at the end of it .

I've contacted the local paper and I hope they name and shame the pub but how many other businesses are doing the same?

Alpine - I live, as an extremely secure and satisfied tenant of a beautiful spacious flat, in one of those oft-cited countries, and I do think that there is a lot that is damaging about the British obsession with owning property. Proper rights for tenants would go a long way - but I fear that is never going to happen while owning is regarded as the goal of existence.

I don't know financeprincess, because I'm not actually sure what you mean, sorry . My sis and her DH both had/have very good jobs so the sum they have for her is quite large. We aren't talking 'starter' home.

Alpine, yes, I think that more house building would help. It addresses the supply side of the equation, whilst available finance to buy houses stokes the demand side.

alpine, where do people rent for their entire lives? I have lived in Asia and people want houses.

Picardy, where are you?

YANBU

IMO the big issue for many young people is the lack of good advice on how to develop and realise career plans.

All too often I hear young people having big career ideas but no plans on how to get there. DN has recently started a degree course in animal care but no real plan on what to do afterwards. This means that she doesnt even know if the degree course she has started will prove to be a good investment or not.

DH and I have talked about different careers with DCs ever since they started secondary school. Never heavy conversations it is just a running dialogue with the DCS. This helps to keep plans realistic.

I would be wary of counselling someone to get into a trade. DH has just given up as an electrician as there was no work. Oh, they all claim they are run off their feet but get them into a quiet corner then they all admit there is little going on.

YANBU
When I started teaching I could talk to children about working hard, training for a job and going out to earn money so you could move on in life. The parents I worked with hoped their children would improve on the life they started with.
Now, although I go for the same chat I am not so sure. I worry a lot about these children who will work hard and still not be able to have financial security. I worry even more about the SEND children I support as more and more practical training courses are scrapped as this "university for all" culture takes hold.
In lots of schools career advisors are no longer in post, work experience doesn't happen and children are not fully supported. How will that help?

sorry, rant over