to be very cross with a teenager who wouldn't get up for the remembrance service this morning

[Notmyidea]

And tell her she needs to give up guides as she can't meet her obligations?

I took my daughter to church with the Guides this morning. The people who run Rainbows/Brownies/Guides are very involved with the church, I suspect the use of the church hall is reduced or even free, and I think two church services a year (sometimes Remembrance, sometimes another service around this time of year, and Thinking Day) is a small way of 'paying back'.

There weren't many Guides there, it wasn't compulsory. We had however told the Guider last week that we would be there, and so unless we were ill or had some emergency, we had made a commitment.

Fence sitting, I made DD2 go last year as it's a three line whip for Scouts, but I didn't drag her to church today (she's given up Scouts, for good and bad reasons). She doesn't believe in God and very rarely comes to Church.

As a Ranger I used to do the parade at the memorial and slip off quietly before church. My (Catholic) Guided went to mass and was perfectly happy that I should be true to my faith (or lack of it) to.

These days I have a Cof E DH and a choir singing DD1, so I do the whole lot.

In truth I'd still prefer to just do the act of remembrance at the memorial. Non of the people I'm remembering were religious, my Dnan because her father lost his faith when a second brother died in WW1

It's about learning the value of duty not religion; Leaders give up a huge amount & it's a small price for everyone to support these events.

I would put this in perspective and decide for my teen that Guides are better (greater benefits) for them than the need for them to learn right now to meet all obligations. I would also support the Leaders if they chose to scold her when she next goes. So express my disappointment but otherwise don't pursue it.

I honestly thought this was going to be my teen this morning, btw!!

TBH i think she should be allowed back to guides and her Guider should ask her WHy she didnt go to the service it is optional she doesn't have to go but I think she let down her unit , but I think that is up to her and her Unit leader I would be miffed though why would you not let her go back to guides

If she's a teenager then maybe she isn't sure about her views on all this remembrance stuff.

Or maybe she was just too tired, I do think YABU
Her life isn't ruled by the guides, she may have just not felt up to it which I think is fair enough.

Do some posters on here think just not feeling up to it is a good enough reason to let others down and renege on a commitment you've made?

I'd be feeling a bit 'too tired' next time she wants a lift somewhere...

An obligation is an obligation and should be met unless illness or similar gets in the way.

YANBU. Our local troupes make it clear: you turn up for |Remembrance Sunday and St George's Day parade, or you're out. no excuses. Because that's what they are: excuses.

There's nothing jingoistic or forcibly Christian in spending 2 minutes in silence to appreciate those who died so that we can live in a liberated country. People arguing that they died for her to have the freedom to sleep in are really missing the point. The point is that it's a tiny effort on her part to pay respect to the immeasurable effort on their part. And teenagers need to be taught empathy not apathy.

As a guider, Church is not compulsary and nor can we force the girls to attend.

But as she wouldn't get up, I wouldn't be in a hurry to help her do anything in the future.

She needs to deal with the consequences

If she had decided that attendance was in conflict with her conscience and that therefore she could not attend, and had sent her regrets to the gaudier in advance, then of course she should not be compelled to attend.

But if she was Ok about attending and just refused to get moving on the morning itself, then I'd throw the book at her.

I think she needs to understand how rude and disrespectful she was being.
Are you her Guider, or her Mum, or someone else?
I think it would be a shame to make her give up guides because of it, but I wouldn't just want to not say anything, as it's important she understands how she has let the company down, and to some extent the movement, and how it's just extremely rude.

I think so backforgood she needs to realise she is letting her unit down and by letting her not go to guides is really OTT she needs to realise she was rude ,

I'm her mother.

If you are her mother and are understandably angry with her I'd be interested to know how you've dealt with it (if you want to say of course)

What meditrina said.

There are those of us who feel deeply uncomfortable about Remembrance services and Poppy day because we feel the original respect and gratitude to those who died in WW1 and WW2 is being used to to engender support for later, morally questionable, wars of aggression; there is a strong suggestion that there is no difference between somebody who enlisted specifically to fight against fascism and somebody who takes wages to fight any random war that irresponsible politicians may decide to send them to. Some us feel there is a strong difference and that the world wars are being hi-jacked. iirc there was an article in one of the main papers the other day arguing this stand.

But any teen who genuinely feels this needs to get off their backside and explain how they feel. If you don't want to keep commitments you don't make them in the first place.

It's not about the religious aspect or war. It's about making a commitment and then not being arsed to follow it through.

I'm a guider and we can't force girls to attend. I saw a guide there this morning whose two brownie sisters were nowhere in sight, but they hadn't said they would be there so fine.

A lot of girls go to a service at their own church, or are with another parent somewhere else, or have other commitments. That's fine, we understand. But if you say you'll be there then you should be

It's about learning the value of duty not religion; Leaders give up a huge amount & it's a small price for everyone to support these events.

Yes that's true. "Duty" isn't a word we hear much these days.

If she had decided in advance (and told you) that she didn't want to go, I think that wouldn't be so bad. I'm a Brownie leader and parades were always optional for our girls - my current unit is a special one based in a hospital so it would not be possible to go. If she just couldn't be arsed to get out of bed then I have much less sympathy.

My school had a Remembrance Sunday service every year which the entire school, day pupils and boarders, was expected to attend. The only exceptions were those who were in the CCF, who went to the parade in town instead. There may have been a few conscientious objectors, though I was never aware of them, but casual non-attendance was very much frowned upon. I was in the choir and it was one of the most moving services we did every year. Several hundred grumpy teenagers dragging themselves out of bed and into school on a Sunday and then joining in sincerely with the service suggests it's hardly impossible because of their hormones...

Guides and scouts generally feel that remembrance day is important to recognise due to the history of the organisations. Both movements were involved in the war effort in many parts of the world. Guiding and scouting are, at their heart about teaching our youth to think freely and be responsible members if society. I go and I I encourage my guides to go to pay tribute to those that have fought to allow us the freedom to gave this debate. My grandmother volunteered for the warsaw resistance with the rest of her scout unit. It is not about religion.

I am a Guide leader of over 15 years.
Attending church parade for any reason is NOT compulsory, and Guide groups should not give rewards or incentives to turn up.
As a leader, I think YABU to ban your daughter from Guides for this, but as a parent, I think YANBU to expect your daughter to show some respect on this occasion. She didn't need to go to church to show respect.

usualsuspect there is NO forced religion aspect in either guiding or scouting. Neither organisation is or has ever been a Christian (or any other religion) organisation. This is a misconception.

I would be cross with her and make sure she understands why. Can't believe some of the excuses people are coming up with here. Teenagers bodyclocks meaning they need more sleep? So bloody what! Thousands of teenagers marched off to war and never came back, it's just one morning - get up and show some respect. And if the fact it's held in a church which means you avoid it, go to your local war memorial instead and take some time to remember those who made such a sacrifice.

Unplastered I'm very surprised you say that, it may be true of Guiding but you are so, so wrong about Scouting. The Scouting website itself states their position on religion - it is a religious organisation, and there is no option not to take the religious part of the Promise on investiture.