To think a judge should not be able to stop a mother from breast feeding?

[HolidayArmadillo]

m.wfmz.com/Judge-orders-Northampton-Co-mother-to-stop-breastfeeding/-/15946050/22880612/-/1yrm3wz/-/index.html

If this is true I think this judge has been wholly out of order. What about this child's rights? And any father worth their salt would not demand this.

Far more important to have a steady relationship between father and child than to breast feed at 10 months IMO. We all know breast is best, but we also know children aren't harmed by bottle feeding.

I don't think the judge has said you can't breast feed, just that it isn't essential, which it's not. So is no boundary to the dad and child having proper time together.

I think the lady in question doesn't want to spend time apart from her baby full stop, which I can completely understand as they are so young. But it's not just her child. The child deserves to be with both.

"Far more important to have a steady relationship between father and child than to breast feed at 10 months IMO.

As far as we know the father CAN have a relationship with the child WITHOUT disrupting the breastfeeding relationship between the mother and baby. There is nothing in the report that we've all seen which suggests otherwise.

'but we also know children aren't harmed by bottlefeeding'.

Not everyone would agree with you on this. NHS Choices (note info on hospital admissions)

I haven't had time to read all 328 messages so perhaps we know this- but is the "two nights" thing to do with distance between the homes? is staying over the only way for the child to see her father?

I too would like to see how far apart they live from one another. With it being the US, it's possible he lives far away and logistically the 2 days is the best way to work it. Like say for example if he has to get a plane every day.

I think BF is wonderful and did it a lot. But I would make a distinction between a baby of two months and a little girl who is nearly a year old.

IIRC I stopped BF DD at 12 months and DS2 at 14 months and it was very different by the end. In both cases I was forced to stop by external factors- getting PG in one case, my father's illness and death in the other- and although I would have carried on and enjoyed it, it wasn't the end of the world- we moved on to other things.

So if it does turn out that it's the only way for the child to see her father- then I think it is proportionate and reasonable for the judge to balance the rights of both parents. The child will have no relationship with her dad, at this age, if she doesn't see him regularly. That is worse than not being able to BF every night. Even if she then stops BF completely- which, at 10 months, I would doubt myself, they are old enough to be a bit flexible- I still think it would be fair to give the dad some access.

Bottle feeding doesn't cause harm! It may not have as many positives, but that doesn't make it harmful.

I think a lot of these "bottle feeding causes harm" discussions are appropriate for a small baby, but not a child of nearly a year old.

"Bottle feeding doesn't cause harm! It may not have as many positives, but that doesn't make it harmful."

Humans have evolved to need the protective elements in breast milk - they have immature immune systems at birth. If you deprive a baby of the protection that nature intends them to have then they are at additional risk of harm. As evidenced by higher rates of hospital admissions for infections in babies who aren't given their mother's milk.

But yes beast - you are right that when we're talking about infections and hospitalisation, it's a completely different issue for a 10 month old than it would be for a 10 day old. Which is why I said earlier in the thread that for me this story isn't really about the health benefits of breastfeeding, it's about the relationship between the mother and baby which the mother may feel is partially mediated through breastfeeding, and which perhaps is why she's so anxious about bringing this aspect of their life to a premature end.

"then I think it is proportionate and reasonable for the judge to balance the rights of both parents"

Actually the most important thing here is not the rights of the parents, but the rights of the child. The key key question is whether the father can maintain a relationship with his child without disrupting her current situation (of which breastfeeding is one aspect) to her detriment.

Have to say, it's very clear that people's attitudes to this subject on this thread have been very strongly influenced by the fact that they live in a culture where premature weaning and very early cessation of breastfeeding is absolutely the norm. Hence so many people seeing 10 months of breastfeeding as 'long enough'. Well yes, maybe it looks that way when you're bought up in a culture where normal term breastfeeding is as rare as hens' teeth.

Well said Mini

Well yes, maybe it looks that way when you're bought up in a culture where normal term breastfeeding is as rare as hens' teeth.

Is it not the case that cultures with normal term breastfeeding also have more rigid gender roles and the father would not be expected to be so involved?

I don't think the break in breast feeding is to the child's detriment. It's 10 months old, it's need for milk is constantly decreasing, it's relationships with people other than it's mother are increasing.

I breastfed myself. I still find putting breast feeding and the connection of mother and child on a pedestal is silly. There may be less hospital admissions, less GI infections etc, it doesn't make bottle milk harmful, it's just not protective.

Gay male parents manage to bond and raise children without breast feeding. Parents that adopt children too. It's not the be all and end all.

Establishing routine as early as possible and maintaining stability is the most important thing.

well, mini, except I did say, I BF longer than that for 2 of my DC. And by that age, there was more to my relationship with my DC than just the BF, is all.

I do see that the mother is keen to maintain it. But she may also be very reluctant to share access.

While I don't think that bottle feeding causes harm,whether a EBF child of 10 months will take a bottle is debatable and, I think, unlikely. Formula will probably be as appealing to her as it would be to you or me eg not appealing at all. Has anyone on here transferred a baby of that sort of age from EBF to bottles of formula?

All these people who say she could just express either found expressing very easy, or simply don't have a clue how hard expressing is. Also if the father has to take all this previously expressed milk on a journey, how is he going to keep it fresh and cool. Not sure how long expressed milk keeps, but doubt if the expressed milk from the 2 nights away with dad would keep to the following 2 nights.

Has anyone on here transferred a baby of that sort of age from EBF to bottles of formula?

A bit older. DS2 was around 14 months. My father was diagnosed with leukaemia and in order to see him (and then stay while he died) I had to leave DS2 behind because everyone there was so immuno-suppressed. DS2 had to go onto a bottle as he was still hard to feed- his disability meant that solid food was hard for him at that age.

Also if the father has to take all this previously expressed milk on a journey, how is he going to keep it fresh and cool.

I think in hospital milk banks they freeze it?

Most children are eating food at that age so I doubt the child is exclusively breastfed.

Also you can freeze breast milk.... The mum could express a bit everyday and have plenty to hand over when the time came. I think there is more to this story than breast feeding. I don't think she wants to hand the child over. As I said before, it's understandable, but it's not fair to the father or child.

Sorry to hear about your dad, beastofburden. I asked because I tried to give DS a bottle at around a year and he was totally clueless about what to do with it. He was confident about taking water or juice from a sippy cup so guess if I had had to stop bf, he would have just had to have normal cows milk from his cup.

No I doubt if the DD is exclusively BF either, fifi, though I think it is generally recommended that baby's main source of nutrition is milk until 12 months, whether it be breast milk or formula.

Also you can freeze breast milk.... The mum could express a bit everyday and have plenty to hand over when the time came.

You have certainly got her organised, fifi!

That's kind cecily but it was a long time ago- DS2 is 17 now!

I have no idea how much trouble it was- I was in the hospital a hundred miles away holding my mother's hand, so poor DH was lumbered with DC aged 1,3 and 5 by himself- I don't suppose that DS2 got very much option...

It's got zero to do with breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding can continue with a break of two days (mother would have to express for comfort).

It has everything to do with the needs of the baby. If she has had very little contact with her father then 2 days and an overnight away from her mother is very harsh. She should work up to that, over a period of time, starting with short contacts in her own home.

If the mother does not want to support that, then her reasons for not supporting it should be listened to. The breastfeeding thing is irrelevant.

To stop breastfeeding and to be away from your primary caregiver for 2 days and a night is a double whammy on the security and happiness of the baby. So any sensitive court would try to get the parents to be flexible, and to put the needs of the baby at the centre of their discussions.

(And yes - there have been some crazily ill-informed posts on this thread )

It's not just about the nutritional aspect of breast milk though. It'a about a baby who has been breastfed all her life, taken comfort and security from the act of feeding (not just the milk) having that removed from her over 2 consecutive nights! It's not something I would choose to do to a baby unless there was no alternative (mother in hospital or worse). There's no way she will take comfort from a bottle, no matter what it has in it. Apart from that, 9/10 months is prime time for separation anxiety.

Great work from the judge I have to say!

The voice of reason as always Tiktok

:) Tailtwister.
Excellent point about the age of the baby - 10 months is not a good age to make a big change in a baby's life.

But what if the child is 4 or 5 and still feeding for comfort and security? From my friends who have fed their children for a longer time, they usually fed last thing at night. I think it's wrong to potentially keep a child from her father for 4 or 5 years.

There's never a good time to make a big change in a child's life really.

Santana, a child who is still bf at age 4 or 5 can cope with a night away without stopping the bf. Even at this age, it would all depend on how well she knew her father and the capability of the father to care for her....if she doesn't know her father at all, or is unused to spending the night away from home, , then a night away from home would be something to work up to. She would in time spend the night in her father's care and then go back to her mother and they could continue breastfeeding.

It really has nothing to do with breastfeeding. Beyond the newborn stage, breastfeeding doesn't cease if it's not carried out for a night or two.