AIBU? DS was ill and the school have marked it as an unauthorised holiday and are threatening to fine me!

[WeAreEternal]

A couple of weeks ago DS (7) had an upset stomach, he D&V over night and most of the next day.
First thing in the morning (a Thursday) I called the school and let them know he was ill.
He was feeling better by the evening but as he had D&V school policy is 24 hours off, so I kept him off Friday too.

I received a letter from to school yesterday saying that those days have been marked as an unauthoried holiday as "although we received a phone call from you stating that (DS) was ill, we are led to believe that DS was in fact on a holiday to XXXX on these two dates"

The letter goes on to say that if he was genuinely ill they expect me to provide evidence such as a doctors appointment card, a prescription, a medication receipt or something simmilar that can "verify my version of events".

I am a medical professional, I know when when my DS needs medication or to see a GP or when he just has a bit of a stomach bug and needs rest and fluids.
Who would take a child to the GP or buy medication for D&V anyway?

How on earth can I prove that DS was ill?
And why are they even querying this?
AIBU to think this is bloody ridiculous?

Anyone have any ideas?

However a girl in Yr10 has just applied for and got 4 weeks out (she goes for the same 4 weeks every year) on religious grounds which has been granted and many of the parents are actually being quite nasty and racist about it.

Pointing out that exemptions are granted for holidays provided your skin's a different colour is not racist. Granting holidays provided your skin's a different colour is racist.

The idea of the policy is (however heavy-handedly) to stop parents from fucking up their children's education for their own convenience. Allowing parents to take children out of school for a month's holiday on the basis of ethnicity is precisely what the policy was designed to stop: it's the racism of low expectations, the idea that foreign people are, well, a bit foreign and we shouldn't worry too much about their children's education as they're only foreign. Allowing parents to screw up their children's education on the grounds that their colourful and vibrant culture is more important may not seem to be the same issue as FGM and forced marriage, but in fact it stems from the same misguided belief that children from other cultures have fewer rights that "our" children.

Compulsory education is not a conspiracy to stop children from going on holiday. It was intended to stop parents withdrawing children from education in order to put them to work in the fields and factories. Taking children out of school for a month in Y10 is almost certainly educationally damaging (and before anyone shouts "ah, what if she were ill?", go and ask parents of children who are long-term sick in years 10 and 11 how their kids' GCSEs worked out) and the protections that stop people doing it should apply irrespective of ethnicity.

Another thing Sorrysaga, I'm not quite clear on how you've tried to complain already (but I might have missed that somewhere!). If you haven't already put it in writing... In a case where a school was refusing to produce their complaints procedure I would probably write to the Headteacher, headed Formal Complaint, state that you want it dealt with through their complaints procedure and you would like a copy - then quote the useful paragraph in the DfE link already given. Give a 7 day deadline to produce the procedure.

If it doesn't appear, repeat, this time writing to the Chair of Governors.
If they don't respond with the procedure - DfE.
But I think it sounds as if you've already done that!
What people need to avoid is informality, don't ever speak informally to the GoG or any other governor.
By the way, if you manage to get to the point where the governors form a panel to deal with the complaint - Sorrysaga - this CoG is "tainted" by pre-knowledge and having already come to some personal judgement of the situation. So... they shouldn't be on it.

And I hope that has all been a bit useful because I need to step away now. I have a fair bit of work to do over the weekend in preparation for something I'm going to be doing in a school next week...

I've just read Friday's post and agree 100%. I've worked in Health Needs Education and know the damage that can be done in only two or three weeks lost from school.

Oh, something that's a bit "back door" that is sometimes helpful - not always! If the school is an LA school (not Academy, Independant or Free School), they are likely to have a Governor Support department at the LA who give them guidance on governance. It would be unusual for a parent to ring them for advice, but I've had some line management of those people in the past and suspect that if they got a call from a parent they would give simple advice on the law.

I did this once, and the Governors Information service (as I think it was called in our area) was very helpful.

An LA governor support team wouldn't get involved in a complaint... however they tend to be a hub of information gathering about poor governance, which may then feed into a bigger process whereby LA's keep a bit of an eye on their schools...

marking my place and awaiting the outcome for OP

"(and before anyone shouts "ah, what if she were ill?", go and ask parents of children who are long-term sick in years 10 and 11 how their kids' GCSEs worked out)"

I can answer this one. The results were way below expectations.

However, I would like to point out that dd's breakdown and absence from school in Yrs 10 and 11 (as well as her suicide attempts) were closely connected with her (previous) HT's policy of treating her as a liar despite the fact that her condition was both genuine and well attested.

If you are in bad pain and know you may collapse at any moment, it is very hard to steel yourself to go into an environment where you will be treated as a liar. And even after the environment has changed, you will be liable to flashbacks and difficulties in trusting people.

I would never cause my child's education the upheaval involved in a month's absence just for the sake of a holiday.

But I find it difficult to forgive the people who caused this far, far greater upheaval to dd by being unable to distinguish between circumstances you can control and circumstances you can't. She spent 4 years being treated as a liar simply because somewhere out there there are other people who tell lies.

The greatest concession I ever got from the HT (after reams of documentation and a special visit from the hospital consultant to the school) was "Yes, we know corydd is ill but you can't expect us to be happy about it". In other words, we recognise your dd has had her life disrupted but the most important thing is that she should feel guilty about it because it's an inconvenience to us. And she did. Oh yes she did.

We all know that there is a lot of pressure on teachers and headteachers. But everybody has a personal responsibility in life not to behave like a shit towards more vulnerable people simply because they are under pressure from above.

I agree with you Cory, that is awful and a real failure on the part of your poor daughter's school.

I had this recently. I had d&v and study in a clinical environment. I had to miss an assessment that day, so I had to try and get some evidence from the doctor. The dr refused to let me come into the surgery for obvious reasons, but would not give me a note without physically seeing me. The words rock and hard place springs to mind. In the end my gp wrote them a rather snotty letter giving evidence that I had contacted him on that day, that he hadn't seen me so couldn't do the "fit for work" form they were so desperate for, but that even if he had seen me there is no way he could verify my illness without witnessing me vomiting or having diarrhoea. He would have to rely on my history, which is why people are generally trusted to self-certify in the first 3 days of a minor illness, so my testimony would just have to suffice. After this if the condition goes on longer, there is more evidence for the dr to go on! He still charged me £15, but it was worth it as I would have failed my assessment otherwise!

Drs will generally not write notes for the first few days of an illness.

Do they have any evidence you were on holiday? You weren't, were you?

I think with this now as much as the initial shitty and poorly written letter its the schools appalling attitude. The receptionist comes across in the OPs posts as been quite defensive and rude. No one returned the calls in 4 days before OPs letter arrived.
I am sure the school are very busy doing stuff with the kids but a courtesy call or a message left with the receptionist to pass on just to say sorry we cannot deal this week because of blah de blah but we will get back on such and such day/week or even make an appointment for another time.
But no - not one bit of courtesy has been shown to the OP. Some people would be really distressed by getting a letter like that. If a school or any place or institution choose to issue letters making accusations (not matter how right they think they are in their accusations) then they need to have the back up to deal with the fall out and like I have said above, if that means just acknowledgement and an appointment or another deadline given for a response then thats OK (not ideal but hey we all know everyone these days is working on tight staffing/budgets etc).

The school have handled this all wrong and probably done a great deal of damage to their relationship with this family for good.

Good luck for this week OP. Hope you get a response soon. I have to say I am very keen to see the schools evidence of you and your son being on your jollys.

Cory - your story is awful.

I agree with Cory too. The problem is that the schools that do treat children and their parents like that are not made accountable for it.

Our story is absolutely appalling and I can't put all the details on here but some shocking things have happened to us. We were treated badly when we had done nothing wrong other than to have a child with a disability. The school even expected us to apologise to them for our child upsetting the staff because of his disability ( this was put in writing).

Can I just ask...

I've noticed a couple of posters cite the 1996 Education act section 444 and that section mentions "regular attendance"...what is regular attendance? Who decides what is regular? it all seems a bit vague...

The general definition is:

• attending school everyday unless there is a very good reason for absence
• getting to school on time
• being present at school for both morning and afternoon sessions

But I'm not sure exactly where that's laid out.

Any news WeAreEternal?

I'm afraid I still don't have any update yet.

I've not received any kind of response from the school yet.

You haven't had a response because the school have got their hands clamped over their ears and are going 'lalala we aren't listening' in between bouts of 'oh shit we have fucked up, what do we do now?'

I hope you aren't holding your breath, OP. I've been following this thread and getting progressively more and on your behalf...

what are your next steps WeAreEternal? have been following this thread with interest. there is a similar one on the education - school holidays board where someone is saying that it is all H/T discretion. they might say it is Gove or the LEA or whatever but this is just to give them wriggle room. have asked for this to be supported as if it is the answer might be useful to you.

When does the deadline to respond that you gave them end?

They received the letter Wednesday so I expect to receive a response on or before Wednesday.

If I do not receive a response I will be doing as I threatened in the letter and I will also write to the school governors.

Thanks weareeternal for the update. stick very firmly to your guns. if you say Wednesday you mean Wednesday. have the letter ready to go tomorrow night and deliver it weds morning. I hope that at least one of the teachers at your school is on MN and reading this and realising what an awful thing they have done. just keep stepping the pressure up until you get a reply.

Keep at it OP - good luck!

Yes I agree with Mummy Meister. If I recall correctly they received the letter at around 10am last Weds so 10am this Weds is their deadline then the letter is posted and gone. If they get back to you the same day tough ploppy poos for them.

They really are being total arses in this. Cannot believe you did not even get an acknowledgement from them today. I was half expecting it, just incase some one had been off last week and come back to this, but they obviously dont give a shit.

Actions speak louder than words.

Hang in there and good luck.

I agree have the letter ready to post Wednesday. They may be waiting to see if you'll do as you said. Be prepared to pay £10 for information under FOI act. They may think you'll not follow it through because of cost.

mummymeister I don't think HT's discretion is remotely relevant here. OP is not asking for an absence to be authorised. She has (correctly) notified the school of sickness and kept her DC off school for the exclusion period specified by the school's own policy. The school have then accused her of lying about the illness. OP has been attempting to find out from the school why they have made this accusation.