Wibu to go see dd teacher tomorrow?

[Spiceroots]

Dd is 7 and in yr3.

She's a really friendly, outgoing child who rarely makes a fuss unnecessarily.

She tells me that today her class teacher wouldn't let her go to the toilet because she (the teacher) was about to start story time.

So dd held on until home time by which time she was very uncomfortable and had a nasty tummy ache.

I'm not thrilled with this teacher, she is very very immature and uninvolved with the children in her class. Lots of examples in this first half term
I haven't discussed how I feel about her with dd, although dd has mentioned several instances where I feel this teacher was unfair, when I have tried to steer dd into thinking more positively about this teacher.
She seems to be unpopular across the board with all the kids, not just dd.

I would like to go in and speak to her about today, dd doesn't want me to get involved just yet because she is scared her teacher will get upset with her, and feels she can cope with the situation right now.

So wibu to go in tomorrow anyway?

kerwhizzed - I realise that. I thought you were saying that adults have 'gotta go when you gotta go' and, as we have that right, children certainly should. (Sometimes when you gotta go, you GOTTA GO so its rubbish that children aren't allowed the same freedom.)

I was just saying that we don't have that right and we do have to hold it in. Sorry if that wasn't what you meant.

sorry, bolding fail.

spikey - sounds like you work where I used to work lol

So easy to explain though. Heavy or unexpected period, the runs, a touch of cystitis, vomiting.

^At secondary that is, although some of the list would apply equally to primary.

teacher then has to explain to the Deputy Head why that student was allowed out to the toilet

FFS is it a school or Stalag 19?
Not content with controlling your mind they now want to control your bowels.

Why not just note down the student's name and council them if there seems to be a problem with recurrent visits?

Of course a teacher can't physically restrain a child from going to the loo!!
I think some people on here are over-reacting a tad, talking about basic human rights. Surely the voice of reason is that children can go if they absolutely need to, but that as a general rule, teachers try to discourage them going at important times within class.
Like it or not, there are children who will abuse the 'privilege' and unfortunately some of the shyer children have fallen foul of a blanket rule imposed in some schools. It's unnecessary though, because in my opinion, any teacher worth his/her salt should be able to suss out who's pulling a fast one and who's in dire straits.

You can't get in our toilets without an exit pass from a teacher - the toilet attendant won't let you in without one.

I've been teaching long enough to feel confident in 'explaining' myself to the deputy, but she is not averse to shouting at staff in front of classes, so I can understand why some staff are intimidated into employing almost a blanket ban.

When I was in secondary school a girl asked to go to the toilet, the male teacher said no (In a jokey kind of way) but the girl didn't realise and so ended up wetting herself because she thought he was being serious.
I think children should always be reminded to go at break/lunchtimes but if they ask to go during class it should be allowed but reminded that they should have gone earlier. It's not fair to make anyone hold in a wee or a poo.

because in my opinion, any teacher worth his/her salt should be able to suss out who's pulling a fast one and who's in dire straits.

They often can't though, as posters have pointed out. Also it appears teachers may have difficulties balancing pressure being put on them from SLTs. What should a parent/child do if they are stuck with one of these teachers? (not worth their 'salt' ie fallible)

Also this must be horrendous for girls just starting their periods.

Shouldn't teachers be engaging with their SMT to campaign to let them be more sensitive to a child's needs or are they all totalitarian autocrats?

Leaving aside your feelings about your dd's teacher, because they will cloud how you feel about anything negative relating to your dd. I would pop in and ask what the toilet policy is so you can explain it to dd. That way you're not putting teacher in the defensive and opens the way for her to ask if there are any problems.

Dd has toilet issues and her urgency to go has been getting worse lately. After an accident at school and another in the night I took her to the gp and we were prescribed some medication to help. But I did ask the school that if dd says she needs to go, she is allowed to go immediately as she may soil herself. Or if she complains of stomach ache she is sent to the toilet as it's highly likely she needs to poop and this could avoid a later possibly urgent situation.

I'd explain to DD that her teacher wanted her present for story time (possibly activities to follow etc) but if she became uncomfortable then she should repeat the request. The problems arise when the DC think they can ask only once.

What I meant was that it should go without saying that it is a basic human right to be able to go to the toilet when you need to. But I acknowledge that it's relatively easy to operate a more laissez-faire approach in my situation, with primary-age children and loos within easy reach in the classroom.

Funny how usually we are told on MN that teachers cant look at every single child, no matter if you have even warned them your DC may be ill, and yet, now its loo time they have the sudden ability to gage if a child needs the loo.

how desperate is desperate? crossing legs, twisted face? Holding bottom, squirming in pain?

FFS

As someone else has said, yes it's a basic human right to go to the toilet when you need to- but if I'm working with a group of children on my own with no other adult, I can't just go to the toilet when I feel the need!

I work with year 1-2 children. My usual approach is to ask them to wait till the next appropriate time (eg if they're on the carpet, they can go when the children move to their tables). Often, children forget about their requests. But if a child asks a second time, or I can tell from their face that they are feeling uncomfortable then of course I will let them go immediately.

However, I do have to ask them to wait as a method of weeding out the ones who just fancied a walk/chat to their friends etc. Unfortunately the boys' toilet is down the corridor and around the corner from the classroom (out of earshot too) and they do tend to use the toilet as an excuse to mess around.

There are certain children who we know to send to the toilet at the first request.

So I would just go and politely explain to the teacher that, as DD very rarely needs to use the toilet during lesson time, that if she asks it means she is desperate. And remind DD that if she is asked to wait, but it makes her uncomfortable, she can ask again so that the teacher understands the urgency of her need.

A much wiser than me friend told me some times you have to parent up and go against your child's wishes if it is for the best. My DD never wants me to say anything and most of the time I don't but there was one incident where I did speak to the teacher as a child had been out of order 2-3 times with my child and I wasn't having it. Teacher agreed out of order and sorted it. DD was not happy when I made a complaint about a teacher as she said it was embarrassing but again, I am sure I was right to mention it.

Because, yonis, the teacher has the request for the loo right there in her face - unlike having to search out a child unprompted who may or may not be feeling ill. With the best will in the world, that can get forgotten in the whirlwind that is the primary school day. The decision to say yes/no to a loo request is weighed according to knowledge of the child, where in the lesson one is, whether they've just asked, clearly can't wait and are therefore now asking again and showing physical signs of discomfort (probably more obvious in younger children where, yes, they do "scrunch" and wriggle) and, finally, overall experience.

I must say I'm surprised to hear of SMTs quizzing teachers as to why they've allowed children to go. Are we just talking secondary here?

What are toilet attendants? Are they adults employed by the school and do they stand at the entrance to keep an eye on things? We didn't have them in my day a quarter of a century ago

The toilet attendant sits at a desk in the vestibule area next to the toilets. She signs in and out pupils who go to the toilet in lesson time, and takes the name of their teacher. She cleans the toilets just after break and lunch. At break and lunch teachers/lunch time supervisors take over and supervise the queues.

Ds1 is in year 3. His (lovely) teacher is working on children going to loo at breaks rather than during lessons. It can, as you would imagine, become terribly disruptive if you have children coming in and out of the classroom. By yearc3 they tend not to have a 100% TA.

She has a system where all the children are given a loo card at the beginning of the week. If they absolutely desperately need to go despite having gone at lunch or break time they can "play" their loo card. This means in the main the children make more of an effort to go during breaks because they will only want to use their loo card if they truly need to.

I know though of a couple of children with toileting issues who may have their loo card replenished more often than most where the issues are part of the parent/teacher dialogue.

my perspective
I was areally shy child and hated asking to go to the toilet.so in year 2, I had held on as lpng as I could and then asked the teacher.
she said no, because we were doing reading.
I was so desperate, I sat down on the nearest chair in the hope that I could hold it longer.
I couldn't and weed all over the chair and the floor.
I was absolutely humiliated and because of that, I spent the next 6 years getting "you weed in x's chair in mrs y's class"

Thanks Spikey.