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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why people have these types of dogs in their homes

699 replies

FunnysInLaJardin · 06/11/2013 11:12

I've heard the arguments for and against keeping pit bull/mastiff type dogs and just don't understand at all why anyone would keep a powerful muscular dog as a pet in a family home. Yet another sad news story today in a village just down the road from my home village.

This isn't a AIBU really, just a 'why do they do it'. Is a pet really worth the risk? There are so many other dog types to chose from. I don't understand at all.

OP posts:
lainiekazan · 08/11/2013 15:03

Both training classes I have attended, and the vet's, are quite anti-neutering. I think it's the trend at the moment, along with positive training techniques.

The fashion a few years ago was to have a dog "done" asap, but now I have heard the "experience of motherhood" phrase from several quarters. I think the "human rights" message has filtered into the dog world!

Gileswithachainsaw · 08/11/2013 15:06

Two of the sweetest dogs we saw at the vets were a staffi and a boxer.

You could literally do anything to them that we needed (procedure wise) and they just let you do it. They were well behaved, sweet, friendly... Really good natured dogs.

The jack Russell's on the other hand.....

lainiekazan · 08/11/2013 15:06

Why is having prejudice against certain breeds nonsense? Of all the bizarre statements. I would no more have a pit bull in the house than sit on the sofa next to Freddie Krueger.

CalamityKate · 08/11/2013 15:13

I haven't said you must castrate your dog. As far as I can tell, from a health POV, depending on what articles you read there are as many cancers/ailments that are more prevalent in neutered animals As there are that are minimised by neutering. I think it's perfectly possible for a responsible owner to prevent an accidental pregnancy whether or not their pet is neutered.
Neutering is also no magic wand wrt behavioural issues in fact neutering can increase unwanted behaviour in a dog whose issues stem from a lack of confidence. Literally, Fido now has no balls :)

Your dogs life sounds lovely!

But I don't understand why your circumstances are relevant to whether you should become responsible for the existence of possibly hundreds of puppies...

D0oinMeCleanin · 08/11/2013 15:14

You must go some very odd training classes lainie.

I'm involved in rescue and training and have never heard anything more laughable in my life.

Human rights for dogs! ROFL.

Take away the "equipmemt" and you take away the desire for a dog to breed. Dogs are not people, they have no innate desire to "experience motherhood" hormones drive them to reproduce, spaying removes this desire.

BEEwitched · 08/11/2013 15:19

Positive training methods are a good thing, it's not a 'trend', it's what is best for the dog. It has nothing to do with not taking responsibility for your pet by neutering it. I've never heard of a vet's being anti-neutering, I'd go to a different vet if I were you, it's no a responsible attitude.

Gileswithachainsaw · 08/11/2013 15:23

Also unless you know the history of the dog you own and te dog it mates with you don't know how strong the instincts are. Some animals just dont make good mums. Maybe they were away from their mum too soon and didn't see enough or maybe the mum was hand reared so she just didn't have it to "pass on"

When you breed you have to be prepared to intervene. Not all cats and dogs will just get on with it and the babies need feeding round the clock and crash so quickly.

baskingseals · 08/11/2013 15:24

Calamitykate, basically because I could pretty much home all the puppies to people I know locally. Obviously I couldn't guarantee that all of them and their descendants would never end up in a rescue, which is why it is not something I would actively do. I think it is more of a dream really. I already know that my dog is the dog of my life. I waited a long time to get him and I think it is because I don't want to lose him, that I fantasise about having one of his puppies. However the gap between fantasy and reality is huge and what I would actually do if anyone approached me would depend on many factors.

ShinyBlackNose · 08/11/2013 15:26

What definition of 'breeder' is everyone working with here?

Basking if you let your dog stand at stud do you become a breeder? Isn't the local shooting enthusiast who sold you a puppy a breeder? What prompted him to mate two of his dogs together? How many litters has he bred?

Basking, I'm sorry but I still don't really understand your point of view re neutering. Is it because you hope to breed from your dog one day or because you live in such a remote wilderness you believe it's unnecessary?

ShinyBlackNose · 08/11/2013 15:33

Sorry to be banging on at you Basking but there's something else I don't really get. Your dog's siblings have been homed locally. If you bred from your dog you could home that litter locally. But you live in a remote area. It just so happens that the few neighbours you have all want Labradors? Wouldn't they just get them from the shooting chap if they wanted them?

baskingseals · 08/11/2013 15:34

Shiny, I think he was from the second and final litter. My dog is now five and the friend I bought him from has not had any more litters. He is connected to a big country estate where they fleece people who fancy a bit of to the manor born by donning plus fours and shooting pheasants. all his dogs afaik are working dogs, mine is not.

Gileswithachainsaw · 08/11/2013 15:35

And aren't they all going to be related?

Inbred Labradors anyone?

baskingseals · 08/11/2013 15:38

Shiny it's okay, where I live is positively medieval. Think lords, tenants, marshes, small but interconnected local population, I am very local, so I know a lot of people, but there aren't that many to know iykwim.

baskingseals · 08/11/2013 15:40

Yes Giles, I would have to be careful about that, but as I will repeat, breeding from my Labrador is NOT something I am seriously thinking will actually happen, so please feel free to breath a sigh of relief.

Tuhlulah · 08/11/2013 15:42

We should make the distinction about 'breeders' (and by this I have also meant reputable breeders who breed responsibly) as opposed to puppy farmers. Can we express it like that to avoid confusion.

Baskingseals -I see where you are coming from. You love your dog and want to have a continuation of that line. Lots of people have dogs who are parents and offspring. (One of my neighbours has a father and son pair of JRT although the father is such a bad tempered little bastard I can't imagine why they bred it.)

I don't see any problem with your contemplating breeding your dog within certain restraints (once) - you live in a rural area, and dogs are worked. Breeding between dogs who are well known to the respective owners and each other, where owners know of health and temperaments, is fairly responsible, for a one off event. I cannot know for certain but I imagine dogs bred in these circumstances are not in the same category of puppy farmed dogs. So I don't see an issue with this. You are not strangers to each other. But you'd have to have responsible ways of selling the pups. I would consider buying a dog bred like this. After all, the dogs have been selected on the basis of their work ability, or temperament, or health/hardiness. Many reputable breeders (by this I mean producing Kennel club standard show lines) breed for appearance or to retain a certain KC desired characteristic, and this is how a lot of deformities have come in. So this hobbyist breeding, done responsibly, could be OK.

Even dogs from reputable licensed breeders can turn out bad. There are no guarantees. Some dogs are genetically predisposed to certain characteristics, like Rage Syndrome in red cockers, or cavalier KC spaniels having heart murmurs or their brains growing too large for their skulls. I could go on.

Even before this dreadful incident, I had decided on never getting a rescue dog. Too much risk. Dogs who have been fucked up by someone else. I am not experienced enough to rectify that.

So we come back to there being too many dogs in rescues to ever stand a reasonable prospect of being responsibly rehomed. For their own protection, to prevent months and maybe years of languishing in kennels getting stressed out, then being rehomed badly by a rescue organisation, however reputable -aren't these dogs better off being destroyed after 7 days? Or maybe a month. Because there are no shortage of them.

Then, bring back licences. Make them expensive. There can be exemptions for elderly. I don't know how you'd means test it because it's not fair that poorer people can't have dogs and I don't want to discriminate against them. People like the homeless have dogs for self-protection, for example.

People out with a dog who can't produce a licence upon request -dog immediately confiscated and temporary stay in kennels, then destroyed. Painful at first but wouldn't this encourage more responsible dog ownership?

curlew · 08/11/2013 15:47

"Yes Giles, I would have to be careful about that, but as I will repeat, breeding from my Labrador is NOT something I am seriously thinking will actually happen, so please feel free to breath a sigh of relief."

So get him neutered then.

D0oinMeCleanin · 08/11/2013 15:50

Even before this dreadful incident, I had decided on never getting a rescue dog. Too much risk. Dogs who have been fucked up by someone else. I am not experienced enough to rectify that.

ShinyBlackNose · 08/11/2013 15:50

My terrier was acquired from a very remote farm that bred a litter because they needed some more working dogs. When we asked for a bitch their immediate concern was that we would breed from her. We reassured them that she would be spayed and she was. As lovely a dog as she is the world doesn't need her puppies.

baskingseals · 08/11/2013 15:53

Why should I get him neutered Curlew?

Tuhlulah · 08/11/2013 15:57

By the way -neutering dogs isn't a neutral thing (pardon the pun) and can increase possessiveness over food and other behavioural characteristics. This is from a research paper I found on GoogleScholar (when I should have been doing something else) on the effects of neutering on dogs and bitches. There are impacts on dog behaviour -not in all, obviously. So although i am pro-neutering, let's not run away with the idea that it has no consequences. So I do understand why some owners don't want to. In the city, it must be hard for a dog, and the advantages must outweigh the negatives. In the country, in remote areas where the dog isn't overwhelmed by the scent of dogs marking out territory, bitches in heat, etc, I'd say it's less of an issue as long as there are no health implications for the dog itself.

My rescue Rottweiler from Battersea was neutered. The op damaged her bladder and she was incontinent and dribbled urine constantly. She was on hormone tablets all her life. PLus she had weight issues. I can imagine neutering a lab can have implications for weight. Although I had my GSD neutered at 6 months and he never got fat, in fact always looked underweight. I always thought the op had prevented him from growing physically stronger/bigger (intellectual capacity untouched, he was a genius!).

baskingseals · 08/11/2013 15:57

Thanks tuhlulah, you have pretty much summed up my situation.

Nataleejah · 08/11/2013 15:59

Neutering dogs, especially males, causes damage to their health.

Auriga · 08/11/2013 16:02

DOoin, that's what I used to think and that's why I went to a rescue. We were told that the dogs themselves had no problems and only had to be reformed because of divorce.

But it was a big fat lie.

ShinyBlackNose · 08/11/2013 16:03

And my mongrel was the product of an un-neutered mongrel bitch being allowed to roam a sink housing estate and having an encounter with an unknown un-neutered dog. She was neutered too.

LEMisafucker · 08/11/2013 16:04

How sad that people would not consider a rescue dog :(

I have had two (three if you include my childhood dog) rescue dogs - now one of those dogs came with "issues" but we knew about them before we took him on and were experienced enough to deal with it (even then it wasn't without its challenges). I now have a lovely little rescue jack russel and he is absolutely the most gentle natured, sweetest little dog that you could ever meet - not snarky like his older "brother£ who i had from a pup Grin I now would only ever consider having rescue dogs.

BUT I would not take on a large breed rescue again whilst DD is still young, you cannot garuntee background and the temprement they display in kennels is not always what you get when they settle in your home. So for that reason i think large breed rescue in a family with young children is not sensible. Saying that, some dogs are rescued via foster homes and this does give folk a chance to assess the dogs temprement before rehoming.

Such a tragedy that this happened, the rescue centre should not have homed such a big dog with that family. I was stunned when i saw the picture of the dog - who i thought was stunning, but huge, i wouldn't have considered taking him on, my DD is 8.