to not understand why people have these types of dogs in their homes

[FunnysInLaJardin]

I've heard the arguments for and against keeping pit bull/mastiff type dogs and just don't understand at all why anyone would keep a powerful muscular dog as a pet in a family home. Yet another sad news story today in a village just down the road from my home village.

This isn't a AIBU really, just a 'why do they do it'. Is a pet really worth the risk? There are so many other dog types to chose from. I don't understand at all.

TeaAddict, by all means feel free to quote me where I have compared different dog breeds to different human races. If you're assuming that's what was written in the deleted posts, you're wrong. They were deleted because I have openly criticised the poor mother of this poor child - and that's OK, I can understand the deletion because it's a very harsh thing to say. Nonetheless, like many owners of a dog breed often called dangerous, I take a great interest in incidents and legislation surrounding this subject and strongly believe people don't take enough care in choosing or looking after these animals and the consequences are hideous.

unscrupulous breeders who don't care about the temperamental stability of the animal they are using are surely more at risk of breeding temperamentally unpredictable dogs?

So true, but that's still a case of deed not breed, no? Again it's the irresponsible humans whose activities need to be curtailed.

Sadly yet another life has been lost because some asshole thinks that young kids and rescue dogs are a good mix. A dog is a dog, why don't people understand no matter how well trained you can never trust them 100%. It beggars belief really.

Deed not Breed.

Locking Jaws is a myth, no dog has locking jaws. Some dogs have more tenacity, and are more likely to hang on to prey, but that does not mean their jaw has locked - just that they don't want to let go.

Bigger dog doesn't mean more walking required. Some of the biggest breeds require very little exercise (Greyhound for one), so it's not necessarily a bad thing for a large dog to be in a flat or smaller house. It is totally dependant on the breed and temperament of the dog rather than the size. My JRT X needed far more walking than my Collie X, even though you would have thought the collie would need the most - the JRT never got tired!

Plenty of big dogs can be docile, friendly and loving. The daftest, nicest most unlikely to attack dog I have ever met was my friends Rottweiller. A dog, any dog, with a decent owner and decent training can be trusted - not 100% no, but then no human can be trusted 100%. Owners have a responsibility to make sure their family is safe around their dog and that their dog is safe around their family.

There are plenty of puppies in PROPER rescues that need homes, if anyone here was thinking about getting a dog but have been put off by this tragedy, please please please be assured that a decent rescue (and I could name lots) would assess you, would assess any dog they though was suited to you and will help you the whole way through the process.

This was a horrific, preventable, awful event - but PLEASE don't let RESCUE KENNELS become tarred with the same brush as this bloody POUND. RESCUES need your support, your help and your understanding. Please don't punish other animals because of the failing of this pound. If they had done their job properly, this could have been prevented.

Hear hear LtEveDallas.

The absolute worst part of this awful event is of course what happened to that poor, poor little girl.

But the knock on effect on rescue dogs, especially for similar breeds/types as the one in the news, is going to be catastrophic.

I've no idea how pounds work - can someone enlighten me?
I heard on the news that the re homing centre had "won the contract" to take dogs fron the pound - does that mean they profit from every dog they rehome and will therefore profit even more from people giving their dogs up into rescue in a panicky reaction to the tragedy that the re homing centre was partly responsible for causing??

As for Lexi's mother taking the dog on despite a warning on the dogs kennel - well, if that's true words fail me. There aren't enough synonyms for "stupid" in the dictionary.

I don't know how the finances of a pound work - but I've had a dog from one.

You go, you look at dogs, you pick one and you buy it.

CalamityKate, how will it be disastrous? Kids have been getting mauled in the UK by dangerous breeds for years now. People still getting them. I don't see how this girl's death is going to change anything.

LtEveDallas: re locking jaws -sorry, that was my understanding from what was available on bull-type breeds. If its a myth, that's reassuring then.

Re bigger dogs and bigger space - I take your point, of course, but I was thinking of actual space. A big dog in a small home with children and movement, loud sounds etc - some dogs might find that overwhelming and need to be able to retreat from it. In a small space, there are fewer places to go. It was simply logistics.

I am a dog lover. I would love a dog but have a husband who doesn't 'see the point of them' (poor sod never had any pets as a child) and a child who is now terrified of them, thanks to irresponsible owners. Plus we live in a crowded city in a rented flat. So it's not going to happen. However, the more programmes i see on TV about dog rescues, the more I trawl Battersea and other rescue websites, the more I wonder if more dogs shouldn't be just put to sleep immediately, rather than languish in kennels getting stressed (like being in a scary prison for years). Many have been abused or poorly bred. Look at Gumtree. All these badly bred dogs, some now being brought in from abroad because obviously we can't produce enough of our own. Being sold to people who shouldn't buy them because they live in flats, rented accommodation, have small children, want them to assuage their own social inadequacies, or even to use in criminal activities. So, when the novelty wears off or indeed as another poster said, when they can't handle the dog anymore, by some mechanism or another the dog ends up in a pound or rescue centre. Enter responsible potential owner, looking for family pet. And yes, I do know that responsible rescue centres like Battersea rehome responsibly (I had one such dog). However, many dogs are labelled 'no children under 13; no children under 8; no children; looking for an experienced owner who can help X address her possessiveness over food; etc.' And don't forget that even these rescues sometimes get it wrong -dogs are returned to them 'through no fault of her own, X is now back looking for an experienced owner who can help her overcome her abandonment issues'. etc.

Many of these dogs are just problems waiting to happen- because even when rehomed with no children, are they going to live forever in a childless vacuum? I won't bore you with details of owners who insist that their dog won't bite and really likes children, when clearly my child is hyperventilating with fear as the dog leaps up at him, or just won't go away and the owner doesn't seem to think they should call the dog to them. (Not all, obviously and when I had a dog i am ashamed to admit i was one of these owners. Mea culpa.)

But, they are animals, not people, and I think we have to prioritise human need (much as some humans are vile, and some animals are lovely). Some of these dogs have been badly treated. Some of them have been in kennels for long periods, or periods long enough to cause them harm. Plus there are so many unwanted dogs, and more coming on the market. They cannot all be rehomed. Some are not fit ('cannot be rehomed with children.' A dog that can't be near children shouldn't be rehomed - it will come across children one day. It might be your child or mine.) Shouldn't we just accept that the vast majority of these dogs are better off destroyed after 7 days?

((hugs)) for expat

I know where you are coming from, we lost a DD to a genetic condition and I believe this makes it harder to hear of stupid preventable deaths like this poor little girl.

I don't let my children go to homes with dogs either - not even the 12 and 14 yos, unless the dog is tiny and one I know well - friend has a jack Russell - I know they can be yappy/snappy but the kids would not be in any real danger from it, and it could easily be controlled.

Expat, so sorry to hear that. I missed that entirely.

I'm not going to get involved with the whole dangerous dogs/breed vs deed arguments, they just go round in circles anyway and LtEve, has said everything perfectly.

I would like to explain some of the issues being brought up re rescue dogs/pound dogs.

A council pound does not in most cases assess the dog. They do not home check. They do not interview potential adopters in order to match them with the right dog. They do not offer ongoing support to adopters. They do not ask to meet all family members. They do not ask to see proof that you are allowed to keep animals in your home. It is no different, ime, from buying a dog from Gumtree/FB. You have no idea what kind of dog you'll end up with. Dogs are adopted from pounds in their dozens every single day, so evidently most people are lucky. The vast majority of dogs, no matter what their breeding or background will never bite.

A rescue not only does do all of the above, but often they will foster dogs within a family setting, giving them and potential adopters a clearer picture on how the dog will behave in a home setting.

Wrt dogs not being suitable to be around children, there are many reasons a rescue might state this. Most often it is because the dog is bouncy. It's not always enough to forewarn people of this. Often 'bouncy' dogs get returned because, surprise, surprise, they bounced on someone

Most rescues will always try to be over cautious to avoid this happening. My current foster is recommended to be with older children only. She's not shown any signs of aggression and was surrounded by young children at the weekend, I myself have a young child who adores her, but she is very demanding and would be too much for most people with young children. She is not a danger to them.

Please don't blame rescue dogs in general. This was not a rescue and have none of the precautions in place that a reputable rescue has.

Tuhlulah

That is exactly what I meant re dog size V space. A small flat provides no quiet space for a dog, especially a large one. A dog w/ no 'room of its own' becomes stressed and anxious.

There seem to me (city dweller) to be just too many dogs though. Too many dogs with no escape from stresses, because they live in tiny flats and the also tiny local park is full of other dogs, whom they don't necessarily know.

I do resent that our local parks are so full of dogs, and of dog shit (smeared all over the streets near us, including by the school gate and directly outside our house. Bags of dog shit get left on our bin). There are dog walkers routinely out with 5+ dogs each. There are friends who always walk their dogs together, so they stand and chat while the dogs roam free as a pack.

I'm on constant alert when with the children in the park. There are dogs that growl, snap, jump up, scratch, you name it. People bring them into the picnic area and the playground. Dogs walk into your picnic try to get at the food.

There are far more pet dogs than when I was little, and far more of the more intimidating breeds. I often feel the parks have been taken over and the non-dog people are expected to just give way to the dog people when most of them don't extend the same courtesy to us or our children at all. It annoys me and stresses me out, which is probably pretty much how the dogs feel about it, too.

The number of inconsiderate owners seems to be a very sizable minority, at least where I live. I see a lot of sentimental dog owners who talk about their dogs as though they were children but don't actually treat the dogs particularly well at all. Animal lover does not always mean fit to be a pet owner.

In my local park the children' s playground is fenced in to keep the dogs away. I always think that is the wrong way round - it should be a dog area that is fenced.

Why are muzzles not used? What's wrong with them? Why don't dog owners like them?

And OP, YANBU. Unless you've got a huge house, huge garden and are very strong and heavy yourself, please don't buy a big muscular dog.

Prayers for Lexi Bransonx

We've got a fenced off dog area but many dog owners won't use it-too many nasty dogs in it apparently. Or they've fallen out with other dog owners and want to avoid them. So they take their dogs into other areas of the park, including the restricted ones. And let them crap there.

I agree with LaQueen on "it's not ignorance to say that all dogs are unpredictable". It's ignorant to say that you know your dog 100%, you do not. You cannot possibly know anyone or anything 100%. I adore my dog and I do trust him but I know there is that chance that my gentle, soppy, silly dog could snap at any moment.

bunchoffives, it is often said that muzzles can increase aggression in a dog because the animal is aware it cannot defend itself while wearing it. Therefore it can put on an 'attack is the best form of defence' stance. You also find other people approaching tend to be nervous when they see a dog wearing a muzzle, assuming the worst of him, and dogs sensing that fear can become nervous and edgy.

My dog is very used to wearing a muzzle because he spent a large part of his life in a country where that was the law, but I always noticed how his demeanour changed slightly once it was fastened.

However I don't believe this is the reason most people don't use them in the UK, they simply don't want to.

Unless there is a specific reason or a known risk I think it would be unfair to muzzle all dogs in public.

Both of the dogs I have owned, a mongrel and a terrier have loved to chase and catch sticks and balls. It is a good way for me to interact with them and to exercise them. Such activities have contributed to their psychological and physical well being. On top of which dogs do a lot of exploring using their mouths.

A blanket muzzling of dogs in public would mean dogs walked on Bodmin Moor, in the New Forest and the highlands of Scotland would all be muzzled. It's not a proportionate measure.

As it stands an owner, dog walker etc is committing an offence if the dog they are with is dangerously out of control in public. I doubt this is enforced. Dogs out in public should also be wearing a collar with their owner's information on a tag. I doubt this is enforced. Most status dogs appear to be exercised in public with no collar or lead.

I so hear you, Edith. A lot of US cities prohibit off-lead dogs except in designated parks, and enforce it. Bliss! Also neutering and spaying is compulsory before you take home any pet from a rescue centre.

ALSO - this thread was originally about a child being mauled in her own home, not in a public place, so muzzles wouldn't have prevented this.

Re a poster's previous comments about Princess Anne's repeat offender dog/s -they should have been taken away and destroyed, and she charged with not having her dog/s under control in a public place (if it was public) or whatever Act is appropriate for a dog owner whose dogs kill other dogs and are out of the owner's control.

Wallison, you took the words out of my mouth.

How many kids does it take to be killed/ disfigured before something is done.

Why should I have to be on my guard every time we go out walking with the kids (and we do a lot) because uncontrolled dogs are running up to us/jumping up at us (usually followed by an owner glaring and saying that they are ok when we look slightly miffed)? And don't even get me started on dog poo.

I would love to see automatic neutering of all dogs and cats apart from those owned by registered breeders. Legislation could be passed to make it a legal responsibility of all vets to inform the police if they treat a dog/cat that isn't neutered.

It isn't going to happen of course, but I can dream.

As a dog owners and an animal lover I am fed up of people who don't know what they are doing making life difficult for me, a responsible owner. Not to mention contributing to the problem of not enough homes for unwanted animals. And the fact that people who allow their dogs to breed by accident or without due consideration to health screening, genetics and temperament are precisely the ones who produce dogs with expensive and heart-breaking health problems, temperaments that are more likely to be neurotic or aggressive, and don't pay enough attention to the suitability of owners and homes for the puppies they have produced, which inevitably results in exactly the type of dog who is on it's third home before reaching 1 year of age and therefore becomes unplaceable.

FWIW we had golden retrievers growing up (as teenagers, not young children). Soft as anything.

BUT

I would never have any dog in the house alongside my baby. Not even a soft golden retriever. Dogs are animals. It's not fair on them to expect them to behave appropriately imo.

Very sad all round.

If you have moral/sound reasons for not neutering, you should be prepared to sign a contract agreeing to ensure your pet does not breed and pay a significantly punitive fine should the worst happen.