To wonder why people who appear to dislike religion enjoy Christian celebrations

[Cupcake1985]

I know that most people enjoy Christmas, Easter etc with no regard for the actual Christian basis and meaning of the celebration, but aibu to think that those people should then not get all offended by the religious aspects and sometimes be downright rude about it?? The nativity play, spreading the word of god through carol singing etc..... Dare I mention operation Christmas child?! If you enjoy Christmas then at least try to accept it is actually about the birth of Christ or at least respect that others will celebrate this fact and may try to share that with those around them with the best intentions.

Basically cheer up, be accepting, be kind.

Believing in God, to me, is as bonkers as being a Scientologist, believing in the Tooth Fairy, believing in alien abduction, believing that a tiny chocolate pig called Henry made the Earth by farting wellies out of his ears.

Alien Abductions would be the most plausible, and the least inconsistent with what we know about the universe, of course.

but, frustrated what you all have in common is the ability to accept that god created and still permits the suffering of innocent people. The level of homophobia or batshit ideas about creationism doesn't help me at all to distinguish between your beliefs on the thing I actually care about. Which is how an all-powerful and loving god can co-exist with what has been created.

Militant atheist and radical feminist is what people who want to silence call atheists and feminists.

Someone once told me that strong Christians love feeling that their beliefs are being challenged as getting into the issue with non-believers really strengthened their faith.
I fail to understand that really, but I've given up having this sort of argument since I found out that I might be helping them get off (intellectually, of course)

friday, I do agree. I always make the point in discussions about religious plausibility, that aliens and fairies are actually far more likely than a deity.

And by 'far more likely', I mean 'still a load of old twaddle'.

I'm afraid I don't accept that at all, beast. I don't believe that God, for want of a better word, creates anyone...nature does that. I guess you could say I dont' believe in God in the biblical sense. In fact, I hardly ever look at the bible because it's a very old book and much of it doesn't apply to our world today. I just stick to the basics...see below

Oxford - hi there, I haven't' seen you for a while - I've name changed.

I agree that Christians claiming peace, love, tolerance as theirs is ridiculous. I remember having a talk with someone who I used to know about people who weren't Christians. She believes that non-Christians can't be good people - I think that's completely insane and offensive.

Buddhists also have peace love and tolerance, as do a lot of Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Jews......and so on. And many of those people can quite happily accept that others have different beliefs and faiths without labelling them as anything in particular. Having a faith doesn't make you a good person, choosing to be a good person makes you a good person, I'm in completely agree with that.

Anyway, that's that, I'm certainly not on here to try to convert anyone, I just came on because I'd seen the title and who had written it and immediately linked it to the OCC thread and wanted to see what the OP was saying exactly...and I still think she is BVU.

lady, I think there are some believers who like a good argument - and fair enough if that's what does it for them - and others who see any challenge to their beliefs as proof that Christians are being "persecuted".

Both good reasons not to bother, as you say.

Well said, Oxford. REALLY well said.

The idea that a human being ever got up and walked out of his own tomb three days after his death is every bit as ridiculous to me as the idea of a 5,000 year old Earth.

Nonsense is nonsense. There aren't degrees of it.

Also, how much of the Bible does a non-homophobic, non-racist Christian have to completely ignore in order to be neither of these things? Masses.

Where do you think these child-torturing, gay-murdering Christians in other parts of the world get their ideas from?

The Good Book. That's where.

"Oh, but Jesus never taught those things, and I just follow his teaching of peace and love". Well, firstly, most Christians ignore most of Jesus' teachings - particularly his financial "advice" - and he was a pretty big fan of the OT and was fairly clear that people should be following it's teachings.

So, that would be: stone homosexuals & cheeky children to death & if you must beat your slaves, try not to kill them.

And no, I haven't misunderstood the Bible. No I haven't taken anything out of context. You just don't like it. And I don't blame you.

So, Frustrated - out of interest, what makes you call yourself a Christian?

That's not a challenge, I'm intrigued.

Also, thank you for the Henry and his welly-farting ears - I now have tea up my nose. I don't' have an answer for that paragraph, you, as always, make a very concise and well constructed point..all I can say is that I don't necessarily believe in a God per se. I don't 'believe I'll live forever in some kind of afterlife, or that I'm somehow superior to others, or that I have to be a good person because there's a God watching me...but I do believe in the basics of Jesus and his teachings...who he was or what his exact origins were don't matter to me because to argue over that is missing the basic point of not being a douche. Using faith to make others feel like shit is utterly despicable, and I'll have no part in it.

Hm, I guess when I read that back to myself it's pretty obvious why I simply didn't get on in the Southern Baptist Church I attended for a few months....

Lady and Rhonda - I can promise you that you don't need to lump me into the Christians who like a good argument. See above.

Hettie - I've asked myself the same question and whether or not I've come up with the correct answer yet I don't know. I would probably fit into a UU church better than any other church I have ever attended and subsequently walked out of in disgust - I do seem to rub along pretty well with the Methodists but again, I've struggled in the past with some of the divisor stuff that has gone on an have distanced myself. I know I'm not alone in how I feel. Perhaps I'm more spiritual than anything else - when I used to have a daily practise there were elements of Buddhism and Wicca in there because I have no aversion to other faiths at all, sometimes I wonder if it's possibly all part of the same pie, but Christianity, or rather Jesus in particular, is what I always seem to gravitate towards in the end. I don't know if I've answered your question really....

HettiePetal, yes, yes! The picking and choosing, and turning a blind eye to so much frankly horrific and totally immoral stuff in the Bible, drives me mad. When Christians who are homophobic go on about 'man shall not lie with man' being in the Bible, I think 3 things:

1. It's a fucking book! I don't believe that Hobbits exist just because LOTR says so!

And then, much more seriously:

2. The same section of the Bible that says that ALSO states that the wearing of mixed fibres and the eating shellfish are equal, if not worse, crimes. So how come you don't get Christians up in arms abour prawn cocktails being on menus, or people wearing shellsuits? Oh, wait, it couldn't be because... wait... because your personal inadequacies and immaturity make you require a group of people to hate, could it?

And let's face it, shellsuits are far more heinous than a bit of bumming ever could be.

3. If people would actually put 1% of research, perception and thought into putting it into context, they would understand that these were rules that made sense thousands of years ago. You didn't eat shellfish cos it goes off easily and can make you ill or kill you. And men back then used to shag everyone and everything; it was just trying to tell men to cool it with the man-love and focus on your wife. Many scholars link it to the ancient Greek tradition of love between older men and younger lads.

Oh, and I also think a 4th thing: FUCK OFF, YOU THICK, VILE, SHITTY HOMOPHOBIC CUNTS.

I couldn't agree more.

I do believe in Hobbits though. I am short and have hairy toes. All I need now is a nice shiny ring.

I'm an agnostic and will pick and choose which parts of religious festivals I choose to take part in as part of cultural celebrations, thank you very much.

Celebrating Christmas is part of my culture, but if school or individual teachers preach/teach the existence of God as fact to my DDs then I reserve the right to contradict them and let DDs make up their own minds.

frustrated, the teachings of Jesus were, and aren't, exclusive to Jesus, although I think you know that. I personally find goodness and morality are far stronger, far worthier, and far more genuine, when they come from an innate place within the person, not done because they want to follow the example of another, or because they fear the retribution of a father figure, or wish to please said father figure, etc. I actually think it belittles a person to say they are doing things because X deity or figure said so. Because that goodness is in them anyway, regardless of, and even despite, spiritual belief of any sort. Am not trying to harass you and your ideas, you just sound like a non-believer with a great sense of wonder about the world (and most of us have that, many religious people don't understand or believe that), but you need, or prefer, the framework of Jesus to express and actualise all that. And I guess what I am trying to say is, you don't need it. Although it's no skin of my nose if you do.

PS Hello! Am intirgued as to who you used to be, IYKWIM. I have my suspicions :)

Intrigued, even!

I worship at the feet of Thorin Oakenshield myself.

But Anybags, what about the mixed fibres?

I really thought you were going to unravel that mystery for me!

I also want to know about the mixed fibers...does this mean I'm going to have to throw out my favourite poly-cotton shirt?!

Oxford, you may get me better than I do. There have been times in the past I have thrown out Jesus completely, mainly because of some sort of incident involving a Fundamentalist or similar derivative that has left me frothing with indignation at their nasty and superior judgment...but I still go back to him: I have no idea why. I think, that technically that makes me a Christian (and also, Jesus supposedly turned up in a Buddhist monastery somewhere and I've not yet gotten around to researching that yet and want to)

I've been wandering around Google trying to find out the explanation for the mixed fibres thing (apparently it's God "protecting consumers" because mixing them cheapens the fabric - although it's the wearer that's the sinner?) - and in my wanders I discovered the Landover Baptist Church!

Check it out, fellow unsaved scum. (Although, you probably already have - I am very slow off the mark).

WHERE THE WORTHWHILE WORSHIP, UNSAVED UNWELCOME

Ah, funny that Hettie...I was looking at it today too..it used to be one of my favourite sites when I was in frothing mode - it's a parody site and not far off the mark of what you may come across in America....

It's brilliant, isn't it? For a moment, I thought it was real..."Show Jesus you love him on Facebook"

Most of what these so called Christian churches preach are actually from the Old Testament, so the Jewish book. I have a feeling - and I'm probably wrong - that on the New Testament Jesus says that he came to bring a new way? I used to love using those OT quotes on my ex MIL, who was a "born again" She used to moan at my ex for having long hair. When I quoted the Leviticus bit to her and told her that Jesus would have had longg hair, she was appalled, but swiftly rallied "Ah, but he had a nice face"

It's fabulous Hettie....it took be about 5 minutes to realise it wasn't real the first time....and I was already in a frothing mode! My H at the time almost had to stage an intervention! But yes, I do enjoy it still when I feel disgruntled and hopeless at the state of things.