Animals vs humans round 2

[livingzuid]

I was enjoying our previous debate started by Fifi. Not sure if we were done!

AIBU to think if faced with choosing a pet over a human (even if a stranger), you should choose the human?

The idea was brought up in another thread and put in life or death situation. Building on fire contains your pet and a stranger. You could only save one, who would it be?

I had a dog, Ralph, I cried my heart out when he died 3 years ago. The only dog I wasn't scared of! But I can't imagine leaving a person to die instead, no matter how my heart would break.

I only posted that as a thought on the original question.

Festive that question has been asked and answered.Asked and answered. Asked and answered so many times.

What do you think they said?

Well since you brought it up perhaps you could qualify it?

Tbh I think this boils down to whether you have a healthy relationship with animals or not.

My sister would be in the 'save a pet' camp. I'm pretty sure she'd watch me die to save her dogs. When our childhood dog died a couple of years ago she went into mourning for about 6 months. She wailed and fainted and harped on about how she couldn't function without her. She pretty much made a shrine to her, with a keepsake box of collar/tags/bowls/photos.
The two dogs she has now are treated as family, as family members that need to be respected and treated equally. As a result there is no pecking order in the house, the dogs are unruly at best and from what I see are not the happiest of animals as a result.

It has been said by numerous people that she has an unhealthy relationship with them - that she is incapable for seeing them as what they actually are - animals, pets. NOT equal to humans. NOT to be treated as such - for the good of the animal as much as her.

My feeling is that those who would put an animal before a human are of the same sort. It's not a healthy relationship or viewpoint and to an extent should be pitied, but you will never make them see it.

I have answered all of the questions, what more do you want? I know it fills people with disbelief but I already stated everything I'm being asked. I'm not about to start trying to justify it as it simply is how I feel.

It definitely boils down to the relationship you have with your animals. That's what I was trying (and I think failing) to say to Everlong and Piano.

Some people truly see them as family. In that context, you can see why they choose to save an animal over a stranger.

I'm not sure I agree with the unhealthy/pity bit, but that's a different conversation.

Have you answered the 'do you reslly have a child' question hickory

It's a horse..

Outraged I obviously missed the answers. Were they hidden within the general trumpeting?

I said that my niece was adopted, and that my dog has been taken into the family in the same way, which is true

No it's not. I 'adopted' my cat from a rescue many years ago, and I've adopted all my beautiful children. It is NOT the same way. They are poles apart, flying around on different planets in fact. And of course I adored my cat and was desperately sad when she died, but I find it very offensive and demeaning to my kids (and your neice) to suggest that they and the pets came into the family in the same way, or that the practical and emotional processof adopting your own child could be in any way compared to the practical and emotional process of getting a new pet from a rescue centre.

There in the threads somewhere Festive, both on this thread and the first one. I can't remember where it was first asked, but quite a way in, maybe 250 posts+.

I think a lot of the issue lies with something known as the "disneyfication" of animals, whereby people ascribe human emotions and values to their pets. Any animal behaviourist will tell you that animals are animals, not people. However much we care about them.

Nope not me

Ha, fraternising with the enemy no, I did a search and jumped to a conclusion..

I think it's completely relevant outraged

The people I have known that treat their animals as if they were people generally have animals that are not as happy as they could be, being confused as to their pecking order and boundaries. Animals are not people - they do not have the same intelligence or emotional capacity, even the best of them. They have completely different instincts, wants and needs to humans.

For a person to build such a relationship with an animal, any animal, that they would put them as equal to a human clearly says to me that they are treating them as such. Treating an animal as if they are human is not good for the person and especially not for the animal. That to me is an unhealthy relationship and an unhealthy mentality.

Where it starts being unhealthy is when people say they would leave a human (even a child) to die before they'd leave the pet.

Amazingly, they profess to be shocked when someone says they'd leave their own child before leaving the pet.

That's too much for them, despite the fact that it's just a continuation of their own feeling that the dog is a family member.

If you carry on down that route, how long before the dog becomes the favourite "child"? Where do you draw the line?

People that haven't drawn the line before they are saving their dogs over humans, can't really be that surprised to find out that that distorted way of thinking might lead to even more questionable attitudes.

People who would create a grieving mother rather than lose their pet are on the same wavelength as the person who would pick the pet over their own child. Not quite there, but not far off.

She's no mother

I think at this point I should add that I don't have an outwardly "unhealthy" relationship with my animals (none of them in fact). All are treated as animals, not treated as people because their needs and behaviour are different. I'm not one of these people who dress them up in clothes etc...

'So in essence you're saying that you think your dog is more important than my dogs are to me, which you can't possibly know.'

I'm saying some people value their animals more highly than others. We can know that because of the answers given here. If someone would prioritise their animal over their DC's, clearly they love that animal an awful lot. More than someone who would prioritise a stranger. I'm not putting a judgement on it, just stating as a fact.

'That does not mean that I think they deserve to live over a hypothetical stranger.'

Ever I promise I'm 100% clear on your view on this issue. For you stranger and then dogs. For others dogs then stranger. Isn't it clear that they value their dog more highly than the stranger and therefore more highly than you value your dogs. Again no judgement either way, just fact.

I agree FestiveEdition. AndKeepingUp too.

Choosing the uncomplicated relationship with an animal over the complicated and infinitely more difficult relationship with people is an easy cop out. Animals reward your attention far more than people. Choosing to save an animal over a human in a fire because you think as a family member the animal deserves your heroism more than a human does means you have confused an animal's instincts with feelings you have projected onto them.