to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

"Yes I have read a lot on it in the past. Just because someone has a different view to you doesn't mean they are incapable of researching and coming to their own conclusions. It would never get stopped at my DC school because it is a very religious school. That doesn't make supporters of it homophobic etc."

My mistake. I don't personally know anyone who would support the islamophobic homophobic views of Samaritans Purse so I do tend to leap to the assumption that people who support charity are doing so without having fully researched it. Most people do trust their DCs schools/nurseries to make appropriate choices, as I did.

If you have fully researched it as you say jellybeans, and still support the charity and it's views and values, then that's great, but I think you are probably the exception rather than the rule.

I'm intrigued as to why you think your DCs school would never change because it's very religious. Perfectly possible to be religious without supporting those views and values...

OP, I wasn't aware that OCC did this stuff. Thanks for letting me know.

Thank you, OP and others for this thread. I have made up lots of shoeboxes in the past and was placated by the fact they insisted nothing religious be placed in the boxes. Little did I realise.

Sunshine I haven't seen people criticising Christian charities on principle. On the other hand, people have suggested other Christian charities that do no proselytise, such as Christian Aid and Cafod.

sunshine, there's a lot that's covert about OCC.

In a previous thread, (linked further back in this thread), the head of Samaritans Purse UK came onto the thread and admitted that the leaflets they give out to schools, supposedly to explain how OCC works, had, in the past, glossed over the evangelical aspect of the scheme.

He said that future leaflets would be more transparent about this aspect of OCC's work, but that hard copies of the leaflet would no longer be distributed to schools. Instead, it would "made available" online, though he was rather circumspect about what he meant by "made available" and refused several times to answer the question of whether OCC had publicised the link to view the new leaflet.

I seem to recall that, in order to access the leaflets, one had to register on OCC's site. Which hardly screams 'transparent' to me.

So Jellybean - you support Samaritan's Purses agenda and Franklyn Graham, fair enoug as he does have a lot of support.

Some schools are this brand of missionary/evangelist Christianity though. Like minded folk flock together and all that. Went to look at one and it wasn't for us - doubt they would have had us anyway. Imagine the teachers/missionaries were probably fans of Franklyn and Billy Graham.

"There is nothing covert about the aims of this one on their website"

True, their website is fairly clear about the evangelism. Unfortunately their presentations to schools are not, nor was the piece in the village newsletter the OP was responding to, nor are many of the uncritical publicity stories about OCC you see in local newspapers or hear on local radio.

That is why people like the OP need to respond when they see OCC being promoted in this way, and why we still need threads like this one even though they have been done many, many times before.

I definitely agree that people should be aware of the ethics of the charities they support - that is what this thread is all about.

Please don't say that the majority of parents who get asked to do a shoebox know about this organisation and what it's agenda is and who heads it. That is just untrue. Many have said on this thread that they had no idea. Let people know the facts and then make their own mind up.

Suburban - yes, the new leaflet for schools and parents, which does make the way the boxes are used for evangelism a bit clearer, is 'available' on the OCC website, but you have to go looking for it, and you have to register with the site to be able to read or download it.

I asked Brian/Gooner repeatedly, on two threads, what OCC were doing to let schools know about the new leaflet - it didn't seem to be flagged on the website, I couldn't find any tweets or facebook posts about it etc, so I wondered if they had been emailing schools or something behind the scenes. Turns out, they hadn't - what a surprise.

Brian obviously didn't want to venture back on the threads, because he was digging himself deeper and deeper into a hole with his comments on miserable gays etc, but he sent me a private message which said: "the domestic OCC team is aware and they are communicating this out to volunteer teams that are active across the country. That's all I can do this year. Next year expect a major revamp and unparalleled transparency - you'll have nothing to talk about!"

I await next year with interest.

sunshinesupernova I think you're right about having to register on the OCC website to view the leaflet.

Didn't one lovely MNetter decide to take one for the team and, against her better judgement, registered and viewed the leaflet?

As you are disapproving of the religious element of the boxes im assuming you don't celebrate Christmas either?, Christmas being a major Christian celebration Take the shoe boxes in the spirit that's its meant.....to help children less fortunate than ours.

exexpat, I remember being on that thread and being almost in awe at Brian's disingenuousness about the whole issue.

I even named him "Teflon Brian" and he thought it was funny .

SunshineMMum - don't you think a charity which goes into schools and gets small children excited about sending presents to poor children overseas has some kind of responsibility to make it clear exactly how it is going to use those presents, without people having to go away and research it themselves?

As I said earlier: if something is being promoted as a nice, kind thing for children to do at Christmas by a primary school, why would people think they even need to go and do their own research on whether it is actually a front for a group of right-wing evangelists?

B0b03, you are so way behind on this thread you're in danger of meeting yourself coming back

Also "I'd presume that generally evangelism would be part and parcel of a Christian organisation" - no, evangelism is not necessarily part and parcel of a Christian charity.

Many religious-based charities (Christian Aid, Mary's Meals etc) manage to go out and do good work without using that to get children to sign up for bible classes. They may mention their beliefs as part of their motivation to do what they are doing, and so be a good example of Christianity in action, but they are primarily there to make a real difference to people's lives. That is not the case for OCC.

Suburban - I think we are starting to go round in circles in many ways...

Just found this website which seems to bring a lot of the criticisms of OCC together-although I wish there was more on the logic and usefulness of shoebox appeals. sites.google.com/site/occalert/Home

I feel I have to repeat myself: I am astounded by the complete ignorance of some posters here. Christmas is a Christian celebration? yeas, I suppose so...by way of theft.

I know that adds nothing further but...just flabbergasted....

sunshinemum, whatever you personally might assume about OCC, they are certainly not telling the schools they recruit that they encourage children to sign up to bible classes after they've received their gift.

That's the bit that rankles with people. And if you honestly think children whose school has signed up wholesale to the programme are going to want to be left out, when the shoeboxes are piling up in the corridor, as used to happen in a school I worked in, you obviously don't understand how marketing works!

exepat, you are so right.

I don't know why I do it, I should really hide these threads