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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Religious books and the ILs.

49 replies

ParrotsHilton · 01/11/2013 21:36

My PILs have a selection of kids books for my son to 'read'. DS is 18 months and loves looking at pictures. They have a book entitled 'god the creator', I haven't properly looked at it. PIL are quite religious and they feel religion is very important to them but DH and I want DS to make up his mind about religion when he is old enough.
AIBU to mention to PIL that we want DS to make up his own mind? How should I go about it?

OP posts:
bababababoom · 01/11/2013 21:49

How can he make up his own mind without being exposed to religion? If they were preaching to him all the time then I'd say yes, say something - but having a book around is fine imo. You'll be his main influence, so as he gets older he will ask you interesting questions from reading books and other things, and it's fine to say to him, "grandparents believe this, this is what I believe, but nobody knows the answers for sure and you can decide for yourself what you believe".

Original poster
ParrotsHilton · 01/11/2013 22:00

I completely agree that you have to be exposed to different ideas to make your mind up. My problem is that at an impressionable age, PIls may say 'this is what happened' rather than 'This is what we believe happened'. i want his religious education to be framed by 'X believes this but Y believes that'. I think learning ABOUT religion is very important, I just worry about him being preached at.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2013 22:02

It's all very well doing, "x believes y" but if the religious types are saying, "God made everything" then it's not really a fair fight.

Is the book at their house, a gift?

Caitlin17 · 01/11/2013 22:04

If the book were aesthetically pleasing and well written I'd keep it. Think of Oscar Wilde's fairy stories which usually come in beautifully illustrated versions and have a strong Christian aspect

I also had books of stories from the bible but I also had children's books of Greek, Roman and Norse myths as it's important culturally to know about all of these, obviously I'm talking about older than 18 months.

I don't think I'd go out of my way to bring this book to the attention of any child of mine however as I expect it falls into the preachy model.

Caitlin17 · 01/11/2013 22:06

And to be clear the old testament bible stories were treated as no more true than the Greek myths.

Original poster
ParrotsHilton · 01/11/2013 22:06

Yes, it's at their house. I don't want the book taken away and religion never mentioned. I just want to be clear about what we think is appropriate. Rather than having an argument in a year's time when DS might come home and say 'Grandma said.......'
Additionally I think there are cultural issues with PILS maybe seeing it as more their place to provide religious guidance/information than I do. PILs and I do not share the same religious/cultural background.

OP posts:
FlapJackOLantern · 01/11/2013 22:09

PIls may say 'this is what happened'

I don't remember anything that was said to me at that age........and nor will your son ! I certainly wasn't forward enough to distinguish 'this is what happened' from 'this is what we believe happened' !!!

Beastofburden · 01/11/2013 22:09

I think what happens before age 7 can indoctrinate them, so it is worth keeping an eye on it, but you are their main influence.

IT won't be long before he prefers horrid Henry Grin.

Just persistently choose other books, and if they pick out religious ones, say you think he is too young for this.

I think the issue will not go away though, if they have a sincere faith. They will want to influence this. Might be worth DH having a general chat about it, at some unstressed time, not about books as they will think u are being petty, but church attendance and why you will not be doing it.

Caitlin17 · 01/11/2013 22:09

Parrots, you may have to gently set the ground rules and dispel that idea.

Original poster
ParrotsHilton · 01/11/2013 22:10

I agree, not at 18 months, but at 3 or 5? Maybe I should just deal with it if an actual issue comes up and then discuss something specific with them.

OP posts:
Patchouli · 01/11/2013 22:13

I'm guessing your DH lived with them all the time when he was growing up and he sounds open minded.

Have a few books at your place about the big bang and how we're all made of stardust / evolution etc - it might balance things out.

friday16 · 01/11/2013 22:13

but nobody knows the answers for sure

Yeah, we do know for sure that man didn't co-exist with dinosaurs and that the earth is a great deal more than six thousand years old, to name two of the pieces of nonsense that the nuttier sort of Christians have a tendency to push.

Original poster
ParrotsHilton · 01/11/2013 22:16

We have failed to subject DS to a specific rite of passage for baby boys so it's clear we aren't bringing him up in the religion.

He does love his noah's ark though.

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Caitlin17 · 01/11/2013 22:26

Noah 's Ark is just stuff everyone knows and needs to know to make sense of references. It's innocuous.. You could read him stories about other great floods and other creation myths.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2013 22:29

The 'rite of passage' thing makes me think this religion might also be one where being brought up in the faith is a huge deal culturally, historically and racially. I don't know if you aren't naming the religions to be unGoogle-able (sic) but if you are talking about the one I am thinking about a know a few people of that background who are atheist and also identify strongly with it. Could you reassure them that you are going to teach him about his history and background but that this is your and DH's job?

Original poster
ParrotsHilton · 01/11/2013 22:34

I'm not sure it's the religion you're thinking about, it's the other one, but your point still stands! His history and cultural background is different on both sides and we will teach him about both of them. Naturally by being exposed to grandparents who share their own cultures then he will learn this. I just worry that if we don't mention this now we will have a massive argument in the future and PIL will be upset. It's a big deal to them.

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ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 01/11/2013 22:40

Can you just let him see it as a story?

If i audited DDs books (also 17 months) then cats and dogs and fish and mice and ladybirds are the main narrators of most stories.

My DD plays with a noahs ark. That's just one of many flood stories in human history.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2013 22:41

It must be hard if their culture and religion are intertwined for them. It can feel like the children are being lost to them a little.

Sorry but I'm feeling quite relieved that we have atheists on every side! Football teams might be more of an issue.

quesadilla · 01/11/2013 22:52

As someone who was brought up by agnostic/atheist parents but who went to a C of E school, I think it's possible to balance the two fairly happily. Religious stories form the backbone to a lot of the literary influences in our society and can be enormously helpful as a way of either telling stories or making moral points without indoctrination.

If your child is allowed to enjoy these stories but also encouraged to talk about them critically and to question them I think they can be a positive influence.

WingDefence · 01/11/2013 22:55

OP, if your DS did come home and say 'Grandma said...', that would be an appropriate time to have the 'some people think...' chat?

LimeLeaafLizard · 01/11/2013 23:02

Yes, this is what you should do. Don't waste energy worrying about something that may never happen.

Some of the best atheists had a religious upbringing, and likewise many fervent converts had no religion in their childhood.

The attitudes you display are much more likely to influence your son than your ILs.

Retroformica · 01/11/2013 23:14

You tell your son there are lots of religions and your parents follow one

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 01/11/2013 23:18

Lots of books on dinosaurs, experiments and space - that's my recommendation.

onlyfortonight · 01/11/2013 23:19

I am a practising Christian, so of course I take my children to church. But I have made it very clear to them that this is a personal decision to not only believe in God, but also to decide to worship Him.

Children will grow up and then make their own mind up - there is very little we can do as parent except guide them, love them and accept them as they are. Where religion is concerned, I am very happy for my children to be exposed to other faiths and cultures - indeed I have taken them to temples, mosques and other places of worship myself. I love finding out about other's understanding of the world, and how religion shapes that.

What puzzles me though, is why do so many atheists seem to get worked up over things like books and stories, fearing their children will be 'brainwashed'? If you really do believe that there is no God, what are you afraid of? I even once had a close friend of mine (atheist) stand in my kitchen and state that taking my children to church is child abuse Hmm.
Trust me, your children, once grown, will make their own minds up, whether you like it or not. However, educating your children about different cultures and view points is important, and in this world that also means breaking it to them that some people believe in a god. I come from a good atheist family and disappointed them all by going to church as soon as I became a teenager Grin. What will be - will be!

ratspeaker · 01/11/2013 23:22

Look on it as a way of teaching your child tolerance for others beliefs.
They will understand this is what happens at granny and grandads and this is what happens at home- also goes for bedtimes/sweeties/tv/toys...
As main care giver to your DC they will be inclined to follow your examples and religious views.

I was brought up by agnostic parents, my grandparents belonged to different religions.
I attended both sets of grandparents places of worship as a child. I heard the stories from my grandparents. (I have fond memories of sitting up in the gallery with my mum's mum if I stayed over at the weekend even if it was boring,it was part of her life ).
I am agnostic, unless you count The Flying Spaghetti Monster
I married a man with religious parents, they had bible story books, my DC attended a faith school.
My DC also read up on other faiths and alternative beliefs.
They all have friends from various beliefs and lifestyles, I'm proud that they don't judge on anything other than personality.

Not one of my adult DC attends any place of worship