fathers access rights? (posting for traffic)

[WorriedFriend2013]

namechanged in case friends wife is on here. posting in AIBU for traffic.

basically, my good friend has left his wife, about 4 weeks ago. They have a 1 year old dd. His wife has always been a bit controlling and 'odd', and has slowly driven away the majority of his friends and family over the 4 years they have been together. They had an argument last month and she said some disgusting things about his family, which kind of woke him up to what she was really like.

They split and she is now living at her mothers, with their dd. She has not allowed him to see dd since. Obviously he is totally heartbroken over this, as his daughter is his whole world. He has suggested various things eg, only seeing his daughter in a public place like a cafe/playgym, her supervising them at the house etc, but she is having none of it.

Her latest thing is that 'she is scared to see him', when there is zero history of violence/abuse from him. He is now terrified that she will lie and say he has hurt her or dd in order to stop contact for good.

He has made an appointment with a solicitor for the end of the week, but we just wanted to know, basically, is there any chance that she could keep his dd from him for good? If she lies will they just believe her even if there is no evidence?
She has said she will do everything in her power to make sure he and his family never see dd again, but does she actually have this power?

[kawliga]

Toadinthehole you conveniently forgot this bit:

More than 40% of victims of domestic violence are male, says a study by the men's rights campaign group Parity.

The men's rights campaign group has analyzed data from the British Crime Survey, it is true, but as any social scientist will tell you it is possible to make many different conclusions from 'data' if you are selecting which bits of the data to use.

Not saying that because it is a men's rights campaign group it cannot be trusted to tell the unbiased truth, just adding this because it is relevant to know who analyzed the data which is being reported here.

[kawliga]

For those who think men and women are equally vulnerable to DV from each other I think it is also relevant to add that men are generally physically stronger than women. Just saying, because that hasn't been mentioned and I think it's relevant (I don't mean relevant to the OP's friend, just relevant to the discussion on this thread).

[Grennie]

Yes women do physically abuse men. But women inflicting serious physical injury or killing their male partners is rare. Meanwhile two women a week are killed by their male partner.

From memory, I think the figures being used ask of you have ever hit, in any way, a partner. Nobody is defending this. But that can mean a slap once. It can also mean hitting a partner in self defence.

[kawliga]

Just to add to Grennie's point, the picture used in that report linked by Toadinthehole shows a woman viciously pulling a man's hair. That's violence and it's disgraceful and painful but it's not going to have the same impact on a (generally stronger) man as what most female DV victims suffer.

Men do suffer violence from women, some are even killed, but that shouldn't make people think the problem affects men and women in equal numbers.

[kawliga]

This is from Wikipedia:
...[some argue that] the rate of domestic violence against men is often inflated due to the practice of including self-defense as a form of domestic violence [i.e. if the woman fights back they were both violent to each other (this is a common theme in other studies I've seen).
...Gender differences in reporting violence:... men tended to under-report their own perpetration of domestic violence while women were more likely to under-report their victimization. Factors which according to the reviewed studies can lead women to under-report their partner's violence include financial or familial dependence on the abusive partner, the tendency to excuse or normalize the partner's violence with the reasoning that their partner really loves them, and self-blaming. By contrast, men who under-report their own violence may be influenced by the fear and avoidance of legal consequences, the tendency to blame their partner, and a narrative focus on their needs and emotions during reporting.

[Toadinthehole]

The view I prefer is that domestic violence is an odious crime, and accordingly a person who claims to be a victim of it should not be automatically disbelieved on the basis of gender.

[Pompoko]

Why would he be charged with kidnapping? Its HIS child too. The police could not remove baby unless they could see that the baby was in immediate danger.
Same as a woman running away with the kids isnt going to have the police on her for kidnapping.

He should fight for his child (full custody if she is that bad, she will turn on baby if he is telling the truth). A good start is to set up a direct debit to her. Let the mum know when and how much. This shows he is willing to do the best for baby

[SigmundFraude]

'[some argue that] the rate of domestic violence against men is often inflated due to the practice of including self-defense as a form of domestic violence'

I wonder who?....

"If we put across this idea that the abuse of men is as great as the abuse of women, then it could seriously affect our funding."

Sandra Horley, CEO of Refuge (Wolff, 1992)

[RedHelenB]

With confidence - you are wrong, very wrong re domestic abuse by women.

Not sure on logistics but i do think introducing new partners etc into the mix does complicate matters. All I would say is that as a mother I would do whatever necessary to see my kids regularly if they weren't living with me. In a child's early years this may be better to establish regular contact & a good relationship.

[Strumpetron]

Some of the comments in here are disgusting and you need to be ashamed of yourselves.


On the other hand OP you've been given some fab advice by the decent posters. I really hope he gets it sorted, he just needs to step away from the woman entirely and not give her the chance to make up anymore ammunition.

[Strumpetron]

^Why would he be charged with kidnapping? Its HIS child too. The police could not remove baby unless they could see that the baby was in immediate danger.
Same as a woman running away with the kids isnt going to have the police on her for kidnapping^

Nope. Historically the woman has rang the police, hysterical claiming her abusive ex has 'kidnapped' the children. After that's been put through to the police it doesn't hold good in the courts does it? Sometimes men simply have to step back and go the legal route for fear of stuff like this happening.

[Strumpetron]

And hello? It doesn't matter if more women are affected by domestic violence than men. The numbers do not matter what matters is that it is happening at all. How is that even relevant here?

'Sorry mate I know you were abused but it happens more to women so there you go'.

[NotYoMomma]

my ex sil hit and threw a glass photo frame at bil while he held their 18 month old

then claimed he had went for her

then fessed up to her parents thank God who had sent round the big guns.

it does happen. im not saying that women dont have it worse, they do in terms of strength and numbers, but it does happen

the speed at which the OP and their friend were suspected of lying/ manipulating the situation/ etc is a bit depressing though.

I believe you must only work one way

[NotYoMomma]

she also threatened me when I was8 months pregnant mind, she was awful

[Onebuddhaisnotenough]

Tell him to get legal advice and pay maintenance.
Keep all correspondance factual and keep records.

[Grennie]

And try and keep calm. He sounds calmer than you are. Make sure any support you give isn't just winding the situation up more. He needs to stay calm and deal with this properly.

[CuChullain]

"Yes women do physically abuse men. But women inflicting serious physical injury or killing their male partners is rare."

So long as there are no bruises I guess that is ok then!

[Grennie]

Nobody is saying that Cu. But we can't pretend women and men behave the same towards their partners.

[CuChullain]

"But we can't pretend women and men behave the same towards their partners."

Not quite sure what you mean by that statement?

[Grennie]

Exactly what I mean. Women very rarely kill their male partners. 2 women a week are murdered in the UK by their male partner.

Women still do more housework and childcare than a male partner, even if they both do full time jobs.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

“The reason some people are skeptical of his version of events is that women are very rarely the perpetrators of domestic abuse.”
An untrue statement.
“I think it is also relevant to add that men are generally physically stronger than women”

Women are more likely to use weapons.

“Meanwhile two women a week are killed by their male partner.”

On a thread where a group that protects male victims of abuse is accused of fiddling figures that this crops up, because that actual statement is

“On average 2 women a week are killed by a male partner or former partner”

[Grennie]

Thanks for adding former partner. The most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves her abusive male partner.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

but you didn't mention "On average" which means that the number can be increased by almost 25%.

(One death by an abusive partner or ex partner is too much)

[SuperStrength]

Men are abused by women.Children are abused by their mothers. It's really hurtful to read this being questioned constantly on Mumsnet. As the victim of an abusive mother, I understand that women & children are abused by fathers & husbands....why is the abuse the I & my dad suffered questioned & percieved as being less some how?

My mother physically abused us for years...no-one knows about this.
It only came to the attention of anyone outside our family once....when I was 18 and she manged to catch him coming in the front door (he was a big chap). She managed to get hold of his head & banged it several times against the door frame then went to get a kitchen knife. I was watching from my bedroom, picked him up off the floor & dragged him to the car & took him to the police station. He was taken to hospital & we both made statements. The police were horrified at the abuse we had suffered at her hands. It went to court, she was bound over for 6 months & released back to the family home. He let her back. He is a weak man.

My earliest memory as a child is one where I was thrown against a wall by my mother, I remember sliding down the wall. He came & scooped me up as the punches & kicks reigned down on him. I think I was 4. This lasted until I left home.

I'm glad your friend has left his wife. Everyone reading about such an abusive relationship should be glad for him too. Gender has nothing to do with it.

[Strumpetron]

Superstrength I think you deserve that username!!