fathers access rights? (posting for traffic)

[WorriedFriend2013]

namechanged in case friends wife is on here. posting in AIBU for traffic.

basically, my good friend has left his wife, about 4 weeks ago. They have a 1 year old dd. His wife has always been a bit controlling and 'odd', and has slowly driven away the majority of his friends and family over the 4 years they have been together. They had an argument last month and she said some disgusting things about his family, which kind of woke him up to what she was really like.

They split and she is now living at her mothers, with their dd. She has not allowed him to see dd since. Obviously he is totally heartbroken over this, as his daughter is his whole world. He has suggested various things eg, only seeing his daughter in a public place like a cafe/playgym, her supervising them at the house etc, but she is having none of it.

Her latest thing is that 'she is scared to see him', when there is zero history of violence/abuse from him. He is now terrified that she will lie and say he has hurt her or dd in order to stop contact for good.

He has made an appointment with a solicitor for the end of the week, but we just wanted to know, basically, is there any chance that she could keep his dd from him for good? If she lies will they just believe her even if there is no evidence?
She has said she will do everything in her power to make sure he and his family never see dd again, but does she actually have this power?

[WorriedFriend2013]

ah ok daddyofone thanks for that.

I hope that things might improve when a solicitor gets involved. He has an app on Friday, so i hope things seem a bit more positive after that. Its hard because i cant say 'oh it will be fine' because ive never been through it and dont know the legalities, etc.

I think hes obviously imagining the ultimate worse case scenario in his mind, so if he speaks to a solicitor and they say there is any form of hope that will make his day.

[Sparklysilversequins]

If he has her bank details, then he should pay CM into that account regularly. The CSA recommended amount. That would be looked on very favourably by court I should think.

[fifi669]

Haven't read the thread, skipped to the end so apologies if I'm repeating someone else.

I'm afraid as it stands the ex has all the control. She shouldn't, but she does. Poor DP has been trying to get proper access for 2 1/2 years. His story:

Met a girl, seemed nice, started dating. She has serious problems with her mum, is kicked out lives with DP after only 2 months. Girl starts exhibiting volatile behaviour but DP knows her history is pretty damaged and thinks he can help her. Things get worse, he is accused of sleeping with anyone he talks to (including male friends), if he does go out he returns home to the washing machine eating his favourite top etc.

He finally resolves to leave years later when he can take no more but she announces she's pregnant. He stays. Things seem to get better but she returns to her previous behaviour and when DD is 8 months old he breaks up with her. After a fortnight she agrees they're better off apart, he sees DD as often as he likes including a whole weekend while she's at a hen weekend.

Fast forward and she finds out we've started dating and cuts all contact. DP goes to a solicitor, tries to get funding etc DP requests mediation, ex makes up a load of hysterical nonsense, cries on demand etc. talks break down.

6 months on and still no closer legally, she has a change of heart and allows him contact. It's phased to allow DD to be comfortable with DP again. Progressing nicely until ex makes it clear she wants them to get back together, he refuses, she cuts contact again. DP restarts legal proceedings.

More mediation. Ex says DD must return without any stains on her clothes, must not see any member of DPs family and other strange requests. When DP objects, mediator asks him if he actually wants to see DD. DP reluctantly agrees to long list of demands. Ex says she's changed her mind and he can't see her.

Another 6 months of legal stuff. Ex gets into contact and says DD is asking why she doesn't have a dad so restarts gradual contact and eventually months later allows DD to meet me and my DS. A few weeks after that she says DD wet the bed so it must be my fault and I'm not to see her again. Says DD said I pushed her over, that we only played with DS and ignored her, that she doesn't want to see me or DS again. DP starts seeing DD alone but meets his sister which angers ex and she stops contact!

Currently he is back with contact. It started with ex being present, but always out somewhere so DP had to buy tea for them or at the kids soft play which he'd pay for etc. ex and DP argue whenever they meet so she eventually agreed he could have an hour alone per week. He isn't allowed to meet with anyone else during this time. DD was naughty at nursery and ex decided this was DPs fault so his time was cut to 45 mins!

He's now going to bite his tongue til after Christmas and finally go through with legal proceedings.

Sorry for the long post, this isn't even the half of it! If she wants to be a knob about it she can drag it out forever is my point!

[WorriedFriend2013]

wow fifi that sounds terrible! your poor dp, and good luck to him! Maybe im naive but im truly shocked that some mothers behave like this! Do they not realise that they are the ones doing the damage??? i just feel sorry for the children.

One thing i am glad of is that my friends dd is very young, so hopefully she wont really remember any of this, if it gets sorted out in a reasonable time. fingers crossed...

[TreaterAnita]

I'm quite taken aback by some of the responses I've seen to this thread. Yes, the OP could be being taken for a ride by her friend, but that's probably true of many posts on here, and I don't think it should be the presumption just because the friend is a bloke. The idea that domestic abuse, and in particular EA, is exclusively perpetrated by men is bizarre. How many adults post on here about what are blatantly EA mothers? And I can't even begin to work out what Flase is on...

In terms of advice for your friend OP, I think he needs to avoid doing anything that his ex can use as ammo against him. Written communication is a good starting point, ideally letters or emails rather than texts which can get heated. He's heading for a court case I would imagine and it would be sensible to start preparing for that now, so keeping copies of all correspondence and responding calmly to untrue accusations that his partner might make. It must be very difficult for him at the moment to be apart from his child, but the best way of him achieving contact is to not rise to the bait.

In terms of maintenance, a letter with a clear offer to pay and paying the sum into a savings account would be the best option I think. I don't think it's a good idea to pay the funds into her account unsolicited, it might somehow 'not arrive'.

And yes, he needs to get a solicitor.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

re the abuse.

try to get him to contact the mankind initiative here they deal with male victims of DV and EA.

[WithConfidence]

Treater, don't exagerate, no-one said "exclusively perpetuated by men" just that it is far more likely to be men. That is not an opinion or received wisdom, it is from evidence provided by agencies who work with victims and the abusers, both those who come forward voluntarily, are forced to by their families or by the courts.

[deepfriedsage]

I agree, this is not about the Father and his rights, it is about the child. He should take emotions out of it and behave business like. He can contact the CSA himself surely?

[caruthers]

"He should take emotions out of it"

Should he "Man Up" then?

That sentence sounds so callous!

[BrandybuckCurdlesnoot]

Deep - he can contact the CSA himself, but if his ex ignores there correspondence too, there's nothing he can do.

[BrandybuckCurdlesnoot]

Their

[JustAnotherFucker]

I wouldn't get involved if I were you OP.

Fwiw I would believe a woman who claimed violence after leaving the relationship (ie once in a safe position) every time over a man who claimed his DW was abusive so he left behind the baby

Not saying this is the case of course, but its how my perspective would be. The reason being is that in 39 years on this planet I have seen the situation you describe only once.

Yet I have seen the situation from the perspective I gave many, many, many times.

[WorriedFriend2013]

i think the main thing is, its all new to my friend, he doesnt really know what he should be doing. And none of my other friends has been through it either.
He has put off doing things thinking 'she'll speak to me tomorrow/she'll be in touch by the weekend' and its just gone on. Like i say though he has an appointment on friday with a solicitor so hopefully that will shed some light on things for him, and point him in the right direction.

[balia]

You know, here's a funny thing, when woman who had been victims of DV used to get the kind of reaction displayed on this thread (eg victim blaming, accusations of exaggerating, refusal to believe such a thing could happen etc etc) there were far fewer of them.

D'you think when male victims are believed and supported we might suddenly find, to our surprise, that there are more of them, too?

[WorriedFriend2013]

If this thread has taught me anything, its that ive actually led a very sheltered life. I've never encountered anything like this before, none of my friends have had abusive partners (male or female) prior to this. I dont know if that makes me naive or lucky to be honest.

[caruthers]

• JustAnotherFucker Tue 29-Oct-13 23:38:41
  
  I wouldn't get involved if I were you OP*
  
  Ignore this and be a friend as you are doing now.
  
  There is absolutely no need for you to abandon your friend when he needs you.

[Cityofgold]

Deep - what a load of nonsense "He should take emotions out of it and behave business like."

He should pursue his child's right for a relationship with her father with all the resources at his disposal.

[deepfriedsage]

THE last time I looked, MN talk guidelines say I am entitled to an opinion. No need for the personal stuff.

[WorraLiberty]

I agree, this is not about the Father and his rights, it is about the child. He should take emotions out of it and behave business like. He can contact the CSA himself surely?

Could you though?

I mean if you had to spend every day and every night apart from your 1 year old baby?

If so, you're a lot more emotionless than most parents on this thread it would seem.

[WorriedFriend2013]

Thank you to all who have given advice, i have emailed some links and information to my friend, so i am grateful to those who have offered facts and knowledge. Much appreciated. This is all new to my friend, and me, and it has been helpful to get peoples opinions.

I am leaving this thread now as i think some peoples opinions are a bit harsh and personal, making me question myself, and my behaviour, when all i wanted was some help from people who may have been in this situation. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Once again, thank you to those who have offered wise words.

[JustAnotherFucker]

But its ok for him to leave his baby with an abusive mother caruthers?

He made no thought of how/when he would take care of his baby. Until after he left. In fact his concern now seems to be about how he will 'see' his child. Not how he will take care of his child on a permanent basis.

OP said that her friend would "do anything for his child" except remove that child from its "abusive & controlling" mother who was capable of "emotionally crushing" him so it seems

Still sceptical but only OP knows what sort of person he is. I would be equally as sceptical if a woman made plans to leave an abusive partner without taking her dcs's with her too.

All a bit odd to my mind.

[TreaterAnita]

withconfidence I stand corrected, I hadn't double checked the post I was responding to with that comment which was this:

The reason some people are skeptical of his version of events is that women are very rarely the perpetrators of domestic abuse. And often men who are, will be very manipulative (and charming, plausible etc) and convince everyone that it is the victim who is actually the one abusing him.

[If anyone is interested you can read all about this in Lundy Bancroft's books, he is a professional counseller for people who are domestic abuse perpetrators, in the hope of protecting the women and children who are their victims. He says he occasionally has women clients but often they are in same sex relationshsips were dynamics are obvious different.]

So ok, 'very rarely' rather than exclusively, but that post still reads to me very much like disbelief of a female perpetrator. Without getting into the credentials of the author in question, I'm not really prepared to rely on one person's view in what may, as someone has suggested up thread, be an under reported problem. I will reiterate my point that a lot of adults who post on the 'Museums' thread seem to me to be describing mothers who were EA both to their children and their partners. I still don't understand why the OP's friend is being automatically disbelieved by some posters?

[TreaterAnita]

JAF are you genuinely suggesting that the OP's friend should, without any suggestion of physical child abuse, have taken his child from her mother? Seriously, what do you think would happened given the history she has already given? She would have phoned the police, said that he was physically abusive (allegedly without basis) and child would have gone straight back to her unless he was willing to lie. FFS I feel like I'm coming across as a MRA on this thread and I am anything but, but I cannot for the life of me understand how people don't see how this cannot happen in the opposite direction and give support accordingly.

There is obviously the possibility that OP's friend is massively bullshitting her, but most of the helpful posts on here have related to how he can have some contact with his 1yo, not how to move back in, so hardly enabling an abuser.

[caruthers]

But its ok for him to leave his baby with an abusive mother caruthers?

What would his options be?

Take the child away and then face arrest for kidnapping ?

Fathers have far fewer options and it's disingenuous to state otherwise.

Most posters on this thread have given excellent advice and i'm sure the OP can differentiate between the good and bad

[Toadinthehole]

More than 40% of victims of domestic violence are male, according to the British Crime Survey.