To think that going abroad for surrogacy should be far more controlled

[ReallyTired]

This couple are planning to bring back FOUR babies from India.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24670212

No one in the right mind diliberately choose to have quads. I feel that the family have not thought through the logistics of bringing up four babies. I feel shocked at the utter contempt the wife has for her two surrogate.

There are laws to prevent unsuitable people adopting from abroad and I feel that there should be laws to prevent unsuitable people using surrogates to get hold of a baby/babies.

Those prospective parents sound like the worst possible extreme of consumer culture. And horrible and callous too.

I hope all the parent,s who are criticizing the desperate couple, only wear fair trade clothes/eat fair trade products.

its a bit distasteful, people who can conceive naturally, criticizing those who cannot for exploitation, while being blind to their own active role in global exploitation.

everyone can choose to be ignorant when it suits them.

For some people, desperation will be at the heart of choosing to go down this route. However I feel that the adoption process in this country needs to be speeded up and improved. Then there wouldn't be a 'market' for foreign surrogacy and adoptions.

I'm not blind to my role in global exploitation but the food supply chain is a little different in that eating is not optional and the injustices in a worldwide system can't be addressed overnight.

Infertility, while deeply distressing, isn't usually directly fatal.

I am not blind to my own role, and do try and be aware of where my products are coming from and who has made them/in what conditions. But you don't have to be totally blameless in all areas of your life to understand that buying a woman's body is wrong.

so you have to eat non fairly traded food and wear no fairly traded clothes?

I think the couple in the article would say they had no real choice. just as you are now saying you have no choice.

do you bank ethically? fly?

One does what one can but the global need for food cannot be met ethically at present.

I don't fly at all.

you are just choosing to see the problem as not yours to solve.

which is fine as long as you realise that you are part of global exploitation.

this story is just another part of the same thing.

So there's no point in doing somethings fair trade etc unless you do it all? That seems a bit, extreme?

Er, I just said I accept my role and I make consumer choices accordingly because, while I can't change the system single-handedly, I am part of making change happen.

I can categorically say I would not choose to do what this couple have done.

I am sure you buy many unfairly traded things that you could manage without/use more than a fair share of the world's resources.

while you criticise this couple who cannot have children any other way.

(we are going round in circles so I will stop this point as it is getting us nowhere)

Or I could concede that since I'm not perfect, you must be right (while you ignore that I clearly stated that, for ethical reasons, I would never make the choice this couple have).

something - maybe we can agree that neither of us would want surrogate quads?

Certainly.

I doubt I'd cope with two - I have huge respect for parents of twins who keep it together.

Surrogacy is a minefield. But this couple have done something that goes beyond that. They put 3 embryos into each woman simultaneously, that is reckless. It shouldn't matter that they were paying.

Three embryos in one fertile woman is reckless.

As I said before, this country - based on evidence - considers it so (www.oneatatime.org.uk) and we should afford women the same standards regardless of their nationality, or our own level of desperation.

(Not directing that at you, btw, 2468, just agreeing wholeheartedly.)

puppy farming for humans, lovely.

Youaremy Just because we live in a society where global exploitation provides us with a lot of our daily needs (and being currently on a low income, I cant afford a conscience when it comes to feeding my children), doesnt mean that we should turn a blind eye.

That this couple chose to go down the surrogacy route is not the issue. I personally dont like these baby farms in India, these womens bodies are bought and sold and then disgarded when they are of no further use. It no different to prostitution imo, but I can understand the desperation that would drive a couple to use this service.

However, the mans comments about "get me 2 surrogates and emplant 3 embryos in each" was so callous. Forget the health impact on both women who could potentially have to carry triplets, forget the possible complications to the babies, no, just throw money at it and to hell with the consequences. For the biological mother to then say that it was no different to hiring a gardener or a builder....words fail me.

These people have no concern for anyone other than themselves and that in itself says to me that they do not have the caring, empathetic and unselfish attitude that one needs to be a good parent, much less a parent to 4. I rather suspect that they will also outsource parenting when they realise what is involved.

I don't see a problem with it really. Its their choice, and they are getting paid. I don't see why surrogacy has to be an altruistic act.

I do think the clinic are irresponsible to put 3 in two women at the same time. They should've said no more than two like they do in this country.

bogey - I don't disagree that their comments are odd.

but look how acceptable it is to say this: I cant afford a conscience when it comes to feeding my children

whereas I guess they cannot afford a conscience if they want a child. hence their comments.

Could they not afford a bit of a consciencethen, in the same way one buys fair trade where one can? (Say, two embryos in one fertile woman at a time.)

I am not against commerical surrogacy, but it does need to be controlled for the sake of EVERYONE. It is not just the indian women and the infertile couples. There is a baby/ babies whoever asked to be born and have been put at serious risk of disablity by the implantation of three embroyos.

I suppose that principle country that needs to tighten its laws is India. However we have more control over UK law than Indian law.

"I'd never make this choice either. And I've walked in their shoes. But what does that prove? I think most of us wouldn't. But for as long as some of us would, then, erm, some of us would.

I'd still be really interested to know what the 'something must be done' people are proposing be done. And how it would be enforced. "

Not allowing children who have been born to surrogates into the UK until the paperwork has been completed. Cruel, but unless laws are enforced then no one benefits.