To think that this is terrible news for my children's education?

[ICameOnTheJitney]

Axeing of Soft GCSEs to hit Drama and PE

Exam board insiders confirmed this weekend that subjects such as law, media studies, drama and PE were at risk of being culled from the list of about 58 GCSEs. One source said that as many as 20 subjects were under scrutiny

Why the arts? And surely PE is a VALID subject...not all children are academic and we NEED PE teachers and drama teachers and actors ffs!

Please tell me why, if this happens it's a good thing?

LaQueen most talented musicians would do GCSE, look up Cheethams, Purcell School, Yehudi Menuhin School. All talented musicians, all doing GCSE music.

I was a talented musician and did GCSE music (as all my friends at Guildhall did and my other friends at RNCM, RAM, RCM and Trinity). Why would you not do a GCSE when you are pretty much guaranteed an A* in a subject which you are obviously gifted in.

Occasionally I get this from parents," Oh well she has grade 4 flute so can carry on music outside of school and choose a different GCSE". Imo this is crazy (if the dd is stronger on music than other subjects)!

Apologies for appalling grammar and spelling. DS2 on respite, have already had a few drinks!!

friday16 - I very much agree that it is crazy to expect universities to level the playing field of learning.

Also GCSE music does not a pop star make. I have recently waved goodbye to two A level music students who are both off to Oxford to study.... Maths!(Yes both did GCSE Music too).

Out of 24 who did my music degree only two of us are teachers. The other teacher is a Head at a primary school. Other friends of mine from music college are arts administrators, working in the City, performers, film composers,working in sound recording for BBC, post production audio editors for films.

Why would you not do a GCSE when you are pretty much guaranteed an A* in a subject which you are obviously gifted in.

To study a subject that you already know for the sake of a bit of paper with "A*" written on misses the point of education somewhat.

I know, I agree. Unfortunately working in the state selective system I know how important A*s are to parents and pupils etc.

Sorry it's just how to sell your subject at Options evening speak when you have a grade 4 flautist in front of you who is contemplating Psychology GCSE and not music. So used to having to sell my subject to keep it alive as the KS4 curriculum has ever more options and ever fewer choices.

No LaQueen but you said the best musicians wouldn't take GCSE Music. They do.

This. It's just wrong, the way we do it at the moment. We fail our future if we don't change the way things are. Gove is not helping.

people should stop relying on the government to educate their kids.They will never get a good education because its not tailor made for them,its a bit of everything because theres so many kids to teach at one time,its not for anyones benefit,no one achieves anything amazing from school,and if they do its in spite of it not because of it.

Wow! So many sweeping statements on this thread. Thank goodness for teachers like noblegiraffe and others.

Ah LaQueen so the best musicians do take music. Indeed they do.

Other typical candidates include pupils who love performing, pupils who have an interest (academically) in music theory, pupils who like a wide variety of musical styles, pupils and parents who value music as an academic subject.

We have to be good at PR. As I say so many different subjects now, so much PR from other depts. We have to fight our corner.

But LaQueen, what's wrong with taking GCSE or A Level Music even if you don't go to music college? It's like saying what's the point of English Lit A Level if you don't a) do English at university b) become an academic c) become a literary journalist.

I am all in favour of highly academic courses and learning for the sake of learning. I have an Oxbridge degree and two (academic, not vocational) postgraduate degrees and am not a great fan of a lot of modern popular culture. All that should make me a Gove fan, right? Like him, I want state school pupils to be stretched and challenged. But his narrowness of vision alarms me. Music, art and drama are not academically suspect and are all taught at top-flight institutions; drama less as a standalone subject, sure, but it forms a core part of English and general literature courses and academics are particularly exercised by drama as performance not just as text.

At the same time, as noblegiraffe so rightly says, these subjects have value for the less academic pupils too. Not everyone in the country will end up at university. And even for the academic student doing triple science, MFLs and whatever, a course in drama, PE, art or music can only broaden their experience of the world.

Well, four.

Friday, I might be a teacher, I might have gone down an academic path, but I also have a GCSE in music. Was it a waste of my time? Absolutely not. Did it detract from my academic subjects? Clearly not, as I did very well. Did it give me useful skills? Yes. If I had done PE, I expect I would find the coaching and leadership aspects very useful as a teacher. Those subjects were absolutely not below me and I'm glad that I got the chance to do music instead of being forced into triple science or double humanities or whatever someone else misguidedly thought would be better for me.

I teach A-level maths. My school also gets all A-level students to do enrichment activities to make sure they are actually rounded individuals and not just living in an ivory tower.

As for whether the best athletes take GCSE PE, at my school they certainly do. My school is a sports college and the provision and support for talented athletes is excellent.

If you take away the GCSE status of PE and music, academic kids who would benefit from, and enjoy them won't take them due to parents like some on here, no doubt, who would think that only GCSE is good enough for little Tabitha.

That would be a real shame.

Friday, I might be a teacher, I might have gone down an academic path, but I also have a GCSE in music.

My daughter's applying for music at Oxbridge, via GCSE, AS and A2 Music, so I'm not sure why you think I have some animus towards it. It's also an incredibly unlikely course to be culled from the list of full-status GCSEs, given A Level Music is a facilitating as you like (Trinity "Generally Acceptable" and so on).

However, that doesn't mean that GCSE Leisure and Tourism is safe.

DD will still take PE & music, NobleG! If she wants to, & I expect she'll want to. (She is likely to be slotted for A*s otherwise). She's very good at figuring out her own best path. Better job than I would do. I don't care if the qualification is called GCSE or BTEC.

friday, sorry, I muddled you with the people who are inexplicably sneering at music.

Leisure and Tourism is a different kettle of fish, I'm not sure many people would mind if they called it something else as it is seen as vocational anyway.