to totally fail to understand why Sexism is never seen as bad as racism??

[chemicalsister]

Following on from the Saudi Olympics thread, I keep getting upset about Sexism thriving in the modern world when racism is quite correctly - seen by the fast majority as clearly wrong and abhorent.
Even educated professionals have wound me up recently asserting we sholud adapt schools, especially first few years of infants , to better suit boys and their poorer attention span,
AND poor boys now do less well at exams at 16 so we must reduce course work etc..
I am old and remember when boys did better than girls at 16-- There was no outrage and plans to change exams then! It was just seen as inevitable ..... Fume!

Sigmund - Reverse sexism doesn't exist, just like reverse racism doesn't exist.

So are you saying that you can't be sexist towards men?

edam

3. Misogyny. Barely recognised even by officialdom. And people who object are often labelled as trouble-makers or over-sensitive.

I can tell you don't work in HR or employment law haha.

Yes Sigmund

In which casemittens you have deliberate misconstrued, you know for a fact we are talking about couples nut some randomer from the office.

What a pointless comment.

So are you saying that you can't be sexist towards men?

What about men who want to work with young DC - as nannies or in nurseries childcare or even MW/HV ?

It's often seen as odd or suspicious choice even on here.

Aren't they facing discrimination because they are men?

Grennie - Right. Well I 100% disagree. I absolutely do not find any kind of logic in that statement.

Hexu - I don't believe that men are immune to sexism. It's a feminist tenet.

DontPanicMrMannering

you know for a fact we are talking about couples

No, you said:

I think a fuckload of men are sexist, they still see woman as the homemakers, they do the driving

If you were talking about couples you would have stated "husbands/boyfriends/male life partners" or whatever.

A massive part of the problem with sexism, racism, any sort of prejudice is the careless use of all-encompassing terms: "men" "women" "Blacks" "Asians" - it's instantly applied what you say next to an entire gender or race (or whatever group) killing any potential for diversity.

What is usually meant is, "some men", "some women", "some Muslims" - some idiot comes out with a remark such as "Muslims are terrorists!" What, all 1.6billion? Shut the fuck up. Qualify your statements properly.

"Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity."

It might sound a bit hippyish, but if you want to end sexism, start with your own attitudes, and really consider if "a fuckload of men are sexist", or if you've just judged a vast portion of society based on their gender.

(I have to admit, I love the irony of the statement, thank you )

But they are wmittens in a small way as are a fuckload of women as are a fuckload of people racist and disablist.

It's a fact not a judgement.

SigmundFraude - that makes more sense. I'm sure it rarer but it still must happen.

It's like racism - I'm white in a white country but have experience it once - Asian work force in factory pretty much all bar few white students. One Asian guy was verbally very abusive to any white workers plus blame them for all issues some he caused. It was an unpleasant experience few occasions he was put in charge of me. I didn't complain ones who did where told it was just his way and to ignore it. Mind you he was rude to fellow student whose parents where from Vietnam - as she wasn't respecting her heritage as she only spoke English. Every one else was fine.

DontPanicMrMannering

But they are wmittens in a small way as are a fuckload of women as are a fuckload of people racist and disablist.

It's a fact not a judgement.

Define 'fuckload' - is it somewhere between kilo and mega in orders of magnitude?

If it's a fact, then you can produce results from one or more empirically-designed and conducted studies that support that.

Otherwise, it's nothing more than your perception and conjecture, and you're foolish to state it is fact.

I have no problem you calling it what it is, but don't say it is when it's only what you think it is. The world is bigger than you, although it's dwarfed by your ego.

Actually I think sexism towards men is tolerated in the same way that racism towards Americans, Germans or English is tolerated. (As an English person in Scotland I have experienced it and I know complaining would not get me very far...) Because they are historically the oppressor it becomes OK to attack them.

But as a feminist and anti-racist I think we should watch out for those forms of prejudice too and avoid taking part/condoning them. The aim is equality, and if that aim were achieved, those attacks would not be OK - so they should not be OK now.

LadyBigtoes

But as a feminist and anti-racist I think we should watch out for those forms of prejudice too and avoid taking part/condoning them. The aim is equality,

Very well said.

There was a case of sexism in football. It got Richard keys and as Andy gray fired.

I think an excellent example was giving earlier in the thread about Muirfield hosting the golf open. To give Salmond his due, he refused to attend as Muirfield doesn't admit women as members. But would a club that didn't admit black people be allowed, let alone permitted to host a prestigious, international tournament?

There was a massive movement to boycott South Africa during apartheid. Where is the movement to boycott Saudi?

These are not trivial 'door opening' examples, but I do think the way some posters on the thread have accused examples of being 'trivial' or 'white suburban' is itself a great example of the everyday sexism that continues to be normalised and condoned.

We live in a patriarchy, and it just isn't in men's best interests to address sexism. Women who do take up a stance, either as feminist groups or as individuals, are generally sneered at - or labelled as that dirty word, a feminist.

Interesting that posters raise the question of men being on the receiving end of sexism - I'm a bit uncomfortable about this, it almost feels a bit sexist in itself. Why can't we discuss sexism against women without it being turned round to be about whether the men are alright?

South Africa didn't have oil which many many countries need.

South Africa is not a country we need to help hold the stick to try to keep the other Arabic countries in line.

'We live in a patriarchy'

No we don't.

'Interesting that posters raise the question of men being on the receiving end of sexism - I'm a bit uncomfortable about this, it almost feels a bit sexist in itself.'

It isn't.

'Why can't we discuss sexism against women without it being turned round to be about whether the men are alright?'

Because it's pertinent to the OP..'Is sexism as bad as racism'. Sexism is not just aimed at women (if you don't subscribe to the notion that only men can be sexist).

I have noticed that racism and disabilsm on mumsnet will be jumped on very quickly in places like mumsnet... but sexism won't be at all. Or actively encouraged.

I think it's because (ironically) it's mostly women who are sufferin and women are told to shut up unless it is affectin someone else.

Outside of mumsnet in the RL world racism and disableism and homophobia and sexism seem to rear that ugly head equally I think. But it is all (publicly I think) mostly low level so unless it affects you, you might not notice it as much

Damn right we live in a patriarchy.

Sorry mittens but unless you can actually stretch into debate on the subject, rather than the semantics of language use I'm not interested in engaging.

DontPanicMrMannering

Nice sidestep. Any luck with those figures yet?

TBH I'll settle for a link to the study.