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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to totally fail to understand why Sexism is never seen as bad as racism??

305 replies

chemicalsister · 27/10/2013 01:18

Following on from the Saudi Olympics thread, I keep getting upset about Sexism thriving in the modern world when racism is quite correctly - seen by the fast majority as clearly wrong and abhorent.
Even educated professionals have wound me up recently asserting we sholud adapt schools, especially first few years of infants , to better suit boys and their poorer attention span,
AND poor boys now do less well at exams at 16 so we must reduce course work etc..
I am old and remember when boys did better than girls at 16-- There was no outrage and plans to change exams then! It was just seen as inevitable ..... Fume!

OP posts:
kim147 · 27/10/2013 21:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 21:55

'where xy and z are, you know, not true.'

Do you want to prove that then? I can pull up a fair few quotes stating all of the stuff I have asserted above, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Btw, the onus of proof is on you.

Being 'goady' is a very ubiquitous term for 'I don't like what you're saying/you're winding me up'. In which case, I feel you are being goady.

BIWI · 27/10/2013 21:57

Oh give it a rest, Sigmund. What you're doing is derailing the thread. You're not dealing with the OP, you're just banging your (very tedious) drum, yet again.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 21:58

'Is there anything feminists would like to achieve that you agree with?'

Yes. Mainly to do with the assumptions of shitwork. Taking the boys to the DR/dentist/appointments/after school activities/parties etc inevitably falls to me. Removal of that expectation is a good thing.

There's other stuff, I'm sure.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:00

I don't derail it by myself BIWI. I put forward my view on the topic, and instead of say 'Oh that's interesting, lets explore that thought whilst keeping to the topic as well'...it's 'Shut the fuck up Sig, you troll' and off it goes. Do you really expect me to shrug and say 'fair enough, I'll be off then'!!

DontPanicMrMannering · 27/10/2013 22:00

Give me 1 example of an entirely cohesive "movement"? There are always divergences.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 27/10/2013 22:00

Do you want to prove that then? I can pull up a fair few quotes stating all of the stuff I have asserted above, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

you can prove it..but the onus is on me to do so? No it isn't. Because everyone on this thread will have a basic idea of feminism, which you don't seem to understand.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:02

Mormons? Are they a movement? Scientologists?

skylerwhite · 27/10/2013 22:02

They're religions, Sigmund. But nice try.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:03

Those psycho mega christians that tell everyone they're going to Hell?

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:04

They might be religions, but it's all the same thing. It's all belief, ideologies.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 27/10/2013 22:06

Even so they still aren't cohesive movement. Ask the mormon with 6 wives.

Even a few MRAs probably think they are joining up to help men....

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:11

You say I know nothing about feminism, which isn't true, I probably know more than 50 of women who claim to be feminists ('it's abaht equality innit')...but your knowledge of the MRA movement is painfully woeful. It consists of 'MRAs..dunno what they do but I hate them anyway'.

They don't eat female kittens you know.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:11

*50 percent

DontPanicMrMannering · 27/10/2013 22:11

Erm still dissentions? Some Mormons believe in polygamy some don't.

Scientology even in its infancy now has "alternative scientology" sub group.

No group of humans even when called a homogenous name is ever ever in total agreement.

Toadinthehole · 27/10/2013 22:14

HexU

I will quote you in italics below, as the thread has moved on a bit:

Surely safety issue are not racisms as white poor countries can have poor safety standards or white minorities in poor non white countries suffer them the same - it's what there government enforces and what the multinational companies can get away with.

I strongly disagree. The reason why so many third world countries have lax safety standards, a cheap, poorly-educated labour force, and poor health and living standards for their populations is precisely because of historical reasons. Just about every part of the world was ruled by Western powers, whose empires by today's standards were explicitly racist. And I very much include the British Empire in that assessment, notwithstanding that its standard of administration was comparatively good. These countries are still very much ripe for exploitation by developed countries and still are.

When you buy a skirt from Primark or most other high street stores, you are engaging in that continuing exploitation, whether you like it or not.

There has been an attempt in this thread to frame sexism and racism purely with reference to how these things are experienced in middle England suburbs. This, of course, conveniently shoves the exploited third world out of sight and mind, and allows people who with to claim they are the victim of some "ism" to forget how extremely privileged they are in international terms.

And I really do disagree that what I've posted on this thread shuts people out of the debate. All I've said, right from the very first, is that it is silly to compare sexism to racism and conclude that the former is treated as "less" of a problem. Naturally, I think both are problems.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:19

'No group of humans even when called a homogenous name is ever ever in total agreement.'

Maybe they should be very clear on which subset of feminism they belong to in that case. It would make things a lot clearer.

kim147 · 27/10/2013 22:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:30

'The only MRAs I come across are those who come on FWR and talk mainly about false rape accusations.'

How do you know that they are MRAs Kim? The only person I've ever seen admit to being an MRA on FWR or be pro-MRA is me.

And I know that I don't hate women or wish foul things to happen to them, as seems to be the general consensus here.

'But it's a hell of a lot easier in life being male than female.'

I would dispute that, based on my own experience as a woman, and seeing others experience as men.

skylerwhite · 27/10/2013 22:32

And I know that I don't hate women or wish foul things to happen to them, as seems to be the general consensus here.

Are you implying that the general consensus on MN is to hate men or wish foul things to happen to them? Come off it.

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:36

'Are you implying that the general consensus on MN is to hate men or wish foul things to happen to them? Come off it.'

I'm quite sure that I could find threads that would back up this ^^ statement!

But in the main no, only a hardcore feminist element (mostly gone now) would say that really, but not the general consensus.

skylerwhite · 27/10/2013 22:38

So why did you post that?

SigmundFraude · 27/10/2013 22:44

I was insinuating that feminists seem to be so appalled by MRAs that they must think MRAs hate women (well, actually, not only do they think it, they say it) and wish foul things to happen to them.

Certainly, the latest hoohaa over AF demonstrated that. Many feminists stated over and over again that MRAs had gotten AF banned. Along with various fallacies of MRA misdemeanor. It was really bizarre. I even pointed out that it was poor form to use what was happening as an opportunity to savage the MRA movement.

But anyway. MNHQ's statement put paid by and large to that kind of speculation.

BasilFucker · 27/10/2013 22:47

" Patriarchy is the theory that ALL men conspire to oppress women, that ALL men work together to keep women from having equal status. Doesn't sound too pro-men does it?"

No, that is not what patriarchy is. And it's not what radical feminists believe patriarchy is. Just in case anyone reading thinks that. Hmm

DontPanicMrMannering · 27/10/2013 22:53

No Sigmund To my mind feminism is about wanting total equality. I don't want to dedicate my life to the academia of that, I want to live it. Therefore I can't be a feminist because I won't research and settle for some subset or another? Total bollocks.

Toad this is that it is silly to compare sexism to racism and conclude that the former is treated as "less" of a problem. Naturally, I think both are problems. makes sense and is what we have all agreed on.

But then you add this There has been an attempt in this thread to frame sexism and racism purely with reference to how these things are experienced in middle England suburbs. This, of course, conveniently shoves the exploited third world out of sight and mind, and allows people who with to claim they are the victim of some "ism" to forget how extremely privileged they are in international terms.

Which is bollocks, you seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about the suburbs, it is possible to feel that tackling everyday sexism (which by the way isn't just held to the middle income, it was you blathering on about flipping Audis) is important and still give a shit about Bangladesh.

Having Bangladeshi in laws I manage both quite nicely thank you.

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