To think not looking like you parents

[DevonLodger]

Is not a good reason to take a child into care and carry out a DNA test.

I look nothing like my daughters. Should I be worried?

Mrs De Vere, is that the Irish case or the Greek case? We are talking about the Irish case.

By the way to be fair to the parents, they are not angry because the police followed up the neighbour's call and asked to see their DDs documents. That would be bad, but probably in context it is not so outrageous. They are angry because their daughter was taken away. Having her returned after three days doesn't make it better in any way.

Given the Maddie case

What relevance does a likely murder, more than six years ago, in Portugal, of a child who would in any event now be about ten years old, have to a seven year old child in Ireland?

kawliga you said to me If you're saying Roma people should be treated differently by police because Roma people are travellers and more likely to move on then that's a bit racist

Thank you for that. I am not in fact racist. The reason you thought so was that you are too stupid to read the post properly.

I was going to put it more delicately, but it's been a long day and I'm tired of dealing with fools.

The particular Roma in the Irish case live in a house I believe. Did the police think they were going to dismantle it brick by brick and run off into the night on their stolen horses

Surely a D.N.A test would or if not should have been carried out on the children prior to them being removed. xx

So, in the case in Greek, it wasn't an abduction either.

So would the people who are quick to talk about "cases like these" and the "countless" numbers of abductions please like to cite what it is that they are talking about, as so far the police appear to be batting nought for three? Three arrests, three rounds of DNA testing, no crimes so far (or least, no crimes committed by the people who were arrested). You'd have thought that with all the countless "cases like these" the police would be able to find, you know, just one case, wouldn't you?

Notyomamma. I agree. Madeline might have a different hair color in fact she may look completely different. She was 3 when she went missing and she is now 10. If you saw a picture or me at 3 then at 10 you honestly would not have thought I was the same child. xx

Goodness knows what will happen in my family, we are a mix of Irish, English, S Asian & SE Asian. When my siblings have kids they will look nothing like their kids. It is a worry, I can understand the need to protect kids but its got to be thought through carefully otherwise it will turn out to be a witch hunt.

"I have no prejudice against anyone". Really? Because you are probably not a human being then. We all have prejudices, it's all about whether we challenge them, examine them and learn from the world enough to live in it.

I feel so sorry for the child, being taken away from her parents and the parents, having their child removed for three days. There is a nasty habit of white authorities to treat children from certain racial groups as their property not a member of a family.

Madeline might have a different hair color in fact she may look completely different.

It's about 99.99% certain that she's dead. Nothing that's happened this week changes that.

I think the Athlone case was probably a bit racist. But the one in Tallaght apparently a specific allegation was made anonymously to a journalist via Facebook so they had to investigate. The problem was then compounded because when they tried to confirm the birth certificates validity with the hospital the hospital said that there was no record of such a birth. They were wrong and the press in Ireland actually managed to track down her official record before the hospital did. But with the allegation and the hospital error there was enough doubt to mean that they had to remove her.

But there is a problem with child trafficking by Roma, particularly in regarding to begging gangs. It's just not reported on like this case because it doesn't involve pretty blonde girls.

26 roma were arrested for child trafficking in Romania by a British/Romanian operation in 2011. They were accused of trafficking 200 children to London to beg.

www.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_9618000/9618038.stm

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/romania/8027694/Romanian-gipsy-gang-snatched-200-children-from-homes-to-use-them-as-beggars.html

One of the men involved was jailed for a £800,000 benefit fraud.

When children have been taken into care in England from these gangs they have often been taken again from care.

In 2007 a gang was uncovered exploiting 50 children for pickpocketing and theft in Milan.

I do think the cases in Ireland were dodgy and at least one motivated by racism. But at the same time I think that if the cries of 'racism' about Roma child trafficking are too loud this risks turning into a situation like the sexual abuse in Oxford and Rotherham where fear of accusations of racism could lead to some nasty crimes being overlooked.

MrsDeVere it seems very likely that this child was sold and trafficked and exploited.

The mother has been arrested twice in the past for trying to sell children but absconded before she could be prosecuted both times.

Article from the BBC with comments from the NSPCC about children being exploited and trafficked in the UK by Roma gangs:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11524734

If the mother was arrested for trying to sell a child around the time she was born it does make it seem fairly likely that when that child turns up with other people a few years later she was sold.

That's the NSPCC that published an entirely fictional list of "Satanic Indicators" and whipped up an entirely bogus storm about an entirely bogus problem, yes?

And the European Romani Rights Centre?

www.errc.org/about-us-projects/trafficking-romani-youth-and-women-in-eastern-and-central-europe-analysing-the-effectiveness-of-national-laws-and-policies-in-prevention-and-victim-support/3020

Romani organisations themselves say trafficking is a problem.

And the BBC?

www.antislavery.org/english/press_and_news/news_and_press_releases_2008/news_and_releases_2009/roma_children.aspx

The EU?

ec.europa.eu/anti-trafficking/EU+Projects/HOME_2012_ISEC_AG_TH_B_4000003904;jsessionid=qkS0SwmWNmLldS7PWtQynV2dRWFpLRp2Dl4GJ3TKzd5gkY8VHyxP!525702270

And British, Romanian and Italian police who've had successful prosecutions?

I think to say that there isn't a problem with trafficking involving and committed by Roma flies in the face of evidence. The victims are usually Romani themselves though, so it's not attractive to the press as a story about a pretty blonde child.

I do find this depressing though. This willingness to deny problems exist simply because it's labelled 'racist' to point them out. This is something that is even acknowledged and combatted by Romani organisations.

I think to say that there isn't a problem with trafficking involving and committed by Roma flies in the face of evidence.

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't a problem. What there isn't, however, is a problem of blonde European children being kidnapped by the foreign "other".

No I agree with you on that Friday16. I think it's really depressing that people are paying attention to this case because it's a pretty western European looking child. Yet they don't get worked up about the 100s of Romani women & children who are trafficked and exploited.

This case may or may not be trafficking. The birth mother is so desperately poor that she may genuinely have felt her child was better off going to Greece with the couple with whom she was found. And so far, I haven't read anything to suggest she wasn't being cared for, and cared about..