Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

to think my sister is way out of line doing this to the nursing staff

81 replies

frecer · 21/10/2013 21:02

My brother is in hospital at the moment and I went to see him tonight, when I got there my sister was at the nurse's desk firing a series of questions at the nursing staff. Dsis is a GP (though only qualified for a couple of years) and she was asking medically related questions (about medication and his medical notes etc) but her reaction to them was so rude as the nurses did not know or were not providing her with all the detail she wanted to know.

As she was leaving, I didn't really speak to her but when I got home DP thinks its natural and that its probably a good thing as he is quite a quiet 20 year old guy and so she is keeping them on their toes whilst I think its really rude.

OP posts:

Sunnysummer · 21/10/2013 22:55

Is there a lot of backstory here? "Another thing to abhor" sounds like you are already furious and are coming on here to be justified

Agree that she sounds like she might have been abrasive but also agree with pps that plenty of people with medical backgrounds are justifiably nervous about some care in hospitals (although plenty of the time it is great).

You must both be very worried about your brother, and perhaps now is a good time to cut each other some slack?

Slinkysista · 21/10/2013 22:57

Sounds like your sister was within her rights to be cross. Did you not want to know why your brother's medication was changed. Don't you want to know why it's been changed?
I think the nurses should have been able to answer this question, I can understand your sisters frustration!

whois · 21/10/2013 22:59

Being ride isn't on, but you should be happy someone who knows what they are doing is looking out for your brother and asking relevant questions.

VivaLeThrustBadger · 21/10/2013 23:00

Why should the nurses be able to answer this? They didn't make the decision.

The Dr who made the decision is the one who needs to know why they decided to change it. I'm sure if the sis spoke to the Dr then they'd be able to tell her.

Slinkysista · 21/10/2013 23:07

Yes but doctors aren't readily available to speak to during visiting hours, I'm sure if the doctor was there the Op's sister would have spoken to him/her. I do not think its in any way irrational for the Op's sister to expect an answer re something so important. Surely it would be in the guy's notes! Not really asking too much for the nurse to flick through the notes.
I think there is some back story here with the Op and her sis.

Trigglesx · 21/10/2013 23:11

So if the doctor isn't available she leaves a message for him/her to contact her regarding questions about his medication.

This seems fairly straight forward. If she has permission to have the info, then fine. If they cannot answer her specific questions, then she simply needs to ask for the doctor to ring her. No need to be rude at all.

It does sound like there is much more to this than just what's here.

bearleftmonkeyright · 21/10/2013 23:23

I also think there is more of a back story. Frecer, nobody here knows your sister and we can only judge her actions in this context. She may be difficult. She may have upset the nurses. That is not important. What is important is that your brother gets the best possible care. Your sister clearly feels she can make a difference here. She could well be making no difference but she is not making things worse. She is trying to get the best outcome for your brother. Let her get on with that if it that is the role she wants. Are your parents around? How are they coping? Focus on supporting the people that love your brother. Do not fall out with your sister over this. It will not help your brother.

Caitlin17 · 21/10/2013 23:27

Unless your brother has specifically said the staff may disclose information to her it is none of her business. The fact she is a doctor is irrelevant.
I'd be furious if I were in hospital and nursing staff discussed my treatment with my mother.

Other hall's mother is a nurse and he'd be exactly the same. I'm actually shocked you think it's remotely ok.

It would be fine having sister there when brother is discussing his treatment, but unless she is also his GP, then there should be no discussion out with his presence.

Caitlin17 · 21/10/2013 23:27

Other half, obviously.

bearleftmonkeyright · 21/10/2013 23:29

Caitlin, the op has said brother has given permission.

ajandjjmum · 21/10/2013 23:40

The nursing staff should be able to refer to notes to see why the medication was changed. If I was getting a disinterested response about someone I cared about, I would have got stroppy too.

Sadly been there too often.

footballagain · 21/10/2013 23:43

Nurses have no say in medication. They can't even give you paracetamol ffs.

This thread is a total crock and I don't believe it for a second.

kilmuir · 21/10/2013 23:44

She sounds awful

MutantAndProud · 21/10/2013 23:51

Your posts don't mix up OP.

You haven't given us proper examples with how she was rude and you say you didn't hear the whole exchange, did you hear what the nurses were saying? Perhaps they were being abrasive to her first?

It's very common for relatives (medical or no) to ask the nurses regarding their conditions etc during visiting hours. And if your brother has given permission then I see no problem with asking.

And nurses should know a little about their patients. They attend ward rounds with the doctors and have handovers daily from their colleagues detailing various aspects such as 'mr x is going for a ct scan', 'mrs c has had her blood pressure changed.

'Abhor' is a very interesting word to use as well. Definitely more backstory here, so I think YABU.

ItWasLightCreamCheese · 22/10/2013 00:19

Urgh. YANBU OP. I'm sure if your sister was merely acting as a concerned relative in search of information then you wouldn't be posting. Sounds like she was blustering and attempting to intimidate the nursing staff by bashing them over the head with her degree.

It's the only qualified for a couple of years that is most telling. I have a loooooong professional experience of doctors in their first ten years out of medical school. Hopefully your sister, like most newly qualified doctors who are decent and not carried away by their own ego, will learn to pull her head in eventually.

Also, not to be harsh, but your sister is a GP. There is a world of difference between how a hospital operates and the way a general practice operates. No matter how knowledgable your sister may be, she is only entitled to be treated the same way as any other relative when it comes to information about the patient. Of course, treating doctors will often get more in depth and give a little more time to relatives who are medically qualified, but this is by no means a right.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 22/10/2013 02:41

Has everyone missed the part about the brother asking his sister to be involved?

The nurses should know why the medication has been changed. If there was a problem with what he was taking previously, or things have changed and he needs different treatment then they should know to be monitoring him.

Whoever said she was bashing them over the head with her degree - chip on shoulder much? If she is a qualified GP she will have done several years of hospital medicine and be perfectly well qualified to assess what is going on.

HicDraconis · 22/10/2013 05:07

The brother has given permission for his sister to be involved in his medical care.

Nurses should definitely know why a medication has been changed - whether the original wasn't working, or he has had a reaction or side effect, or whether new test results are available to suggest a different drug would be better (eg antibiotics are often changed when the sensitivity of bugs to antibiotics is known, can take a few days).

If she's been involved with his renal monitoring she'll want to know details of medication.

And Viva - a nurse should have a damn sight more knowledge of their patients than you seem to expect. They're multidisciplinary team partners, they should be taking an active role in care and decision making and discussion although the doctors make the final call if one is required. They should know far more than the admitting concerns, which obs to do and which meds to give! Though I'd expect them to know that too.

HicDraconis · 22/10/2013 05:08

Oh and OP - you are being very unreasonable.

VivaLeThrustBadger · 22/10/2013 06:47

Maybe......but in the two years my dads been in and out of hospital inc a six month stay I'd have been very surprised if any of the nurses would have known about why any of his meds were changed.

After he'd been on a ward for two months one of them expressed great surprise he was epileptic. Dunno why she thought she'd been giving him epilepsy medication every day for two months.

Saying that I do think he got very good care from the nursing staff. He's on something like 20 different meds a day. He nearly needs a full time nurse just to hand them out.

VivaLeThrustBadger · 22/10/2013 06:51

And I frequently asked about his care, condition, treatment, plan of care (with permission) and not once were the nurses able to tell me a thing. Every single time without exception they said they didn't know and I'd have to talk to a Dr. Which is probably why I don't expect much from them now.

Wandastartup · 22/10/2013 07:07

I can see the sisters point. If he's on immunosuppressive drugs for example the dose and monitoring are crucial. If she's been very closely involved in her brothers care she has every right to be concerned. Of course there is stillno reason to be rude but sometimes nurses attitudes about things tbey should know (I'm just back from my break, i'vebeen days off and can't be expected to know) are very frustrating.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 22/10/2013 07:31

Viva I'm stunned at that.

My dad was senior consultant in a large department for many years. His nurses were all very knowledgeable and he would have been horrified if they knew nothing about the patients they were caring for.

Nurses are always talking about wanting more authority, more equal footing with doctors etc. If they can't even keep abreast of what is going on with their patients then they have a long way to go!

cory · 22/10/2013 07:33

So what if you have enough medical knowledge to worry that a decision taken by the doctors is potentially dangerous? Do you not have the right to fire off questions at anyone for fear of being rude?

What would you do if you suspected something was wrong and couldn't get at a doctor because of restricted visiting hours? Wouldn't you ask the medical staff who were around to try to find out? And wouldn't you get frustrated if they refused to do so?

Occasionally, very occasionally, mistakes happen and patients die.

Do we even know that the sister hadn't left a message for the doctor? Or that the nurses hadn't refused to give a message to the doctor?

We don't know the whole story here, it seems impossible to judge who is right or wrong.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 22/10/2013 07:53

As a nurse I hate it when a relative who is medical comes in and starts grilling us about a patient. For a start, we're only allowed to give out information to parents (I work with children) and there is no need for anyone to be rude. It would be more productive if your sister waits til ward round and asks the doctors about the decisions they've made.

As a nurse you should be aware of why a patient's care has changed, we all get a handover, can read the notes etc but it depends what questions she was asking, maybe the information wasn't available. Doctors can be terrible at writing in notes. Sometimes they make odd decisions which we question . However she needs to take her GP head off and support your brother, be there as a sister. Being rude doesn't get you anywhere.

If her questions weren't answered then she needs to come back at a more appropriate time, in the daytime, and speak to someone who can help.

RedEyedandBlotchy · 22/10/2013 08:03

Cory's right, without knowing the whole story we'll never know if the sister was being unreasonable.
Maybe the sister was throwing her weight about because she thought that as a GP she was somehow better than the nurses.
Maybe the nurses were rude and unhelpful and this caused the sister to flare up.
I've been on both sides of this, both as a frustrated relative being fobbed off by rude nurses and as a poorly briefed junior nurse being berated by relatives. Neither is a nice place to be but without the whole story, which, as it would involve disclosing the patient's medical details, shouldn't be shared on here we'll never know if there was any unreasonableness.

Flip

1 2 3 4