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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to think that my sister is being a bit greedy (family business)?

76 replies

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 11:09

My sister set up a business about a year ago. She'd been made redundant almost three years ago, and has two small children. She's divorced. The business uses the skills she developed when working.

In its first incarnation, she invited a retired family member, in an advisory capacity, plus a former colleague to join her. The former colleague insisted that her husband also be made a shareholder "so that she wasn't in the minority", and my sister agreed. He didn't have any skills to bring. They each held 25% of the shares.

Things soon went wrong and after much acrimony, my sister and the family member bought out the former colleague and husband. This summer, my sister asked me to join the business. I'm a chartered accountant, and have many business skills that the operation lacks. I work full time and live 60 miles away from my sister and the other family member.

As background, I've always been very generous towards my sister, both with time and financially. She's just over a year my junior, and has always been in my shadow rather. I've had a much more successful career, for example, but I've never made a big deal out of it. Just recently, my career has stalled a little. So, being involved with a start up might revitalise my CV a bit.

At the first board meeting, the matter of shareholdings came up. I suggested 30/30/40 in favour of my sister. Her previous share, under the old ownership, was 25%. The retired family member said that she "just wanted to help [my sister]" and was willing to go down to 10%. She thought that I should have the same as her.

I said that I'd be willing to compromise at 20%, but since they were asking me to be finance director, build and run a website, twitter feed, web interface etc., and undertake considerable travel on company business, I felt that anything less wouldn't really be worth my while. I thought that it was important for us to be able to communicate calmly and sensibly, like (some) business people, rather than getting involved in the emotional stuff that often comes with family businesses.

My sister is not the most emotionally mature person; I love her, but she can be difficult if she doesn't get what she wants. She sulks and avoids conflict, which makes her passive aggressive; anybody who offends her must be made to pay, you know the sort of thing. She's also quite keen on imputing sinister motives to people. The other family member is from the same mould. I'm not perfect, but I'm not like them. Anyway.....

After the meeting, I spoke to my sister. She said that the business was her idea, that it should be hers and that she didn't think that I or the other family member deserved more than 10%. She said that she might not want me working in the business after all because she was worried that we'd fall out, citing previous sibling quarrels (of which there are few), that she didn't see that I brought much value and that she only asked me to join the business "to give me a bit of interest" (gee, thanks!). She then burst into tears and told me that she'd had a difficult year, so why couldn't I just do what she wanted? It turned into the usual routine: me treading on eggshells to avoid her sulks.

I said that 20% would be fair for somebody you expected to be your finance and IT director, as well as performing other duties in the business. She said, "just put in 10% of the effort then".

I think she's being quite greedy and selfish, frankly. I'd waive dividends, and she's drawing a salary as well as other benefits from the business. There's no way I'd short change her financially. Families are not like Dragons' Den, but I think that in a family business, you have to be businesslike and leave the personal stuff at the door. Also, she was prepared to give her colleague's husband, with no skills, 25% when she set up the business. Why am I only worth 10%?

I'm wondering about walking away, or at least making it clear what I'm prepared to contribute in exchange for 10% (which will be less than I'm doing now; I've been asked to give up 40% of my annual holiday entitlement for business-related activities, plus is it fair to ask me to drive 120 miles round trip for regular board meetings?). Not sure whether I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face though.

AIBU? Any thoughts? Thanks.

OP posts:
Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 12:15

...and I've also spoken to my sister about potential exit strategies, which include the entire business being bought with a potential earn-out in 5 - 10 years (not "a couple of years"). She liked the sound of it; she hadn't considered the long term future and hadn't seen the need for a business plan.

OP posts:
thegreylady · 21/10/2013 12:18

10% is not enough at all.If your sister was happy with 25% with her previous partners then she should be happy with 60% now leaving 30% for you and 10% for the other family member.If that is not acceptable to her you should walk away from it.

Crowler · 21/10/2013 12:19

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but how successful has the business been in the first year? If she founded a business and struck gold, she may view you as essentially reaping the rewards of a gamble you didn't take under your proposed distribution of equity.

MILLYMOLLYMANDYMAX · 21/10/2013 12:22

Walk away. You are a Chartered Accountant if anything goes wrong you do not want the fall out. If she is so immature as to resort to crying when trying to negotiate this is not a good business to be involved in.

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 12:24

Thanks ladies.

The business did OK in its first year, but nothing stellar. It needs to be professionalised and scaled up. My sister doesn't have the skills and experience to do that; I do.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 21/10/2013 12:32

She does not see her own limitations, and neither does she see your skills. I still think you should walk away.

Crowler · 21/10/2013 12:34

In that case, financeprincess, I would walk away.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 21/10/2013 12:38

My sister doesn't have the skills and experience to do that; I do.

what is your small business experience?

ediepop · 21/10/2013 12:44

'she hadn't considered the long term future and hadn't seen the need for a business plan.'

That's really all you need to know. Don't get involved.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 21/10/2013 12:45

You say you like and love her, but you obviously don't respect her in the slightest. From what you've said, that's perfectly justified. So walk away.

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 12:49

Thanks for the helpful advice (even from those posters who seem determined to prove that I'm deluded about my own business skills!)

OP posts:
YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 21/10/2013 13:03

finance what is your small business experience?

of a similar size to your sisters?

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 21/10/2013 13:12

or do you not have any small business experience?

(you don't seem keen on answering!)

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 13:13

Thanks, but I don't think I have to explain my CV to you. Either believe what I've said, or don't believe it.

OP posts:
Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 13:14

...and so sorry for taking nine whole minutes to have lunch, thereby failing to reply to your message instantly!

OP posts:
DontmindifIdo · 21/10/2013 13:23

Walk away. You are falling out now, yes you might be able to make it successful, yes you might have the skills she doesn't, but the cost will be to your relationship with your sister. Value that, so walk away, smile and nod when she discusses her business, stay out of it. I wouldn't go into something that might make me a lot of money at the cost of a relationship with my sibling.

blueraincoat · 21/10/2013 13:24

There is really no need to start being passive aggressive to people who are asking reasonable questions to tailor their opinions. You are obviously very enamoured by your own skills so just go somewhere you feel you are respected to the level you expect if you wish to add to your CV.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 21/10/2013 13:31

Thanks, but I don't think I have to explain my CV to you

of course you don't have to.

but your experience in small businesses is very pertinent to you thread. and your dislike of talking about it, is certainly interesting Grin

on the other hand, I am an experienced and successful small business owner.

but what would I know compared to you!

RedHelenB · 21/10/2013 13:32

I think you're being a bit greedy tbh, not wanting to draw a salary cos you[re a top rate tax payer. You don't think much of your sister from the way you post so you go back to your well earning job & leave her to it. After all, you only wanted in cos it could enhance your cv!

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 21/10/2013 13:34

I worked for my Brother, which I know is a different situation. We fell out about the best care for my Mother who has Dementia. It has been horrendous and I can't see me ever being able to get over what has happened though he has twice muttered about reconciliation to DH. Ican't believe the way he has acted and feel like I never knew him at all. I'm having to have counselling to help me come to terms with what has happened and the fallout which has split my family.

Walk now. If you've doubts already it has the potential to go very wrong and it's not worth it.

tomatoplantproject · 21/10/2013 13:34

She clearly doesn't recognise the value that you would bring to the table. If she respects you and listens to you and is fair to you then it's worth working with her but if it's this difficult to begin with then why waste your energy? You'd be better off focusing on more positive things - you could volunteer or work as a non-exec director to add to your cv, and save your relationship with your sister. Walk away.

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 14:07

Thanks for the nice advice.

In response to the not so nice contributions:

  1. I love my sister very much, thanks. It doesn't mean that I can't ever be irritated with her.
  1. She asked me to join, not the other way around. People don't give significant chunks of their time to a new business for nothing; the positives I identified were a potential CV enhancement and a possible future gain if the business were properly run. Nothing shocking there.
  1. I don't think that waiving salary and dividends so that the business could grow faster and would need to borrow less is greedy. Quite the opposite. There would be little advantage to me in drawing either just now in any case; I was happy to take a long term gamble by working in exchange for equity. This is what happens in the real world, too.
  1. I repeat, I don't need to justify my CV or explain my career history. I'm not being interviewed and I'm not here to win your approval. This is an open forum. I'd prefer to keep it anonymous, so either accept what I've written, or don't accept it and bow out of the discussion. It rather reminds me of being in a playground and hearing one six year old saying to another: "You think you're great, but you're not, you're rubbish!"
OP posts:
YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 21/10/2013 14:29

OP - this is AIBU.

I don't know if you are.

for me it depends whether you have relevant experience - buy which I mean - experience that someone who had actually run a small business would accept as relevant.

otherwise - everything you are saying is based on theory - not experience.

blueraincoat · 21/10/2013 14:31

People aren't asking you to justify your CV just give some sort of idea about your experience. You may be a CA with 20 year experience in small start ups in which case your sister is bring unreasonable. You may be a CA who qualified 3 years ago and spent that doing personal tax comps. In which case your sister is being realistic about what you can bring.

DontmindifIdo · 21/10/2013 14:46

pretty much everyone has said the same thing, walk away. It doesn't matter really what your skills are worth, if she asked you, if it'll improve your CV etc, what matters is that she is your sister first, if you want to protect that relationship then you have to prioritise it - your involvement has already caused tears, it will cause more no matter what, yours or hers or both - and that is regardless of what percentage you get.

If you have a good relationship with your sister, it doesn't matter if it would be good for the business to have you working for it, or that it would be good for youe CV or anything else, what matters is you are chosing to do something that will long term damage your relationship with her.

I repeat, walk away.