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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to think that my sister is being a bit greedy (family business)?

76 replies

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 11:09

My sister set up a business about a year ago. She'd been made redundant almost three years ago, and has two small children. She's divorced. The business uses the skills she developed when working.

In its first incarnation, she invited a retired family member, in an advisory capacity, plus a former colleague to join her. The former colleague insisted that her husband also be made a shareholder "so that she wasn't in the minority", and my sister agreed. He didn't have any skills to bring. They each held 25% of the shares.

Things soon went wrong and after much acrimony, my sister and the family member bought out the former colleague and husband. This summer, my sister asked me to join the business. I'm a chartered accountant, and have many business skills that the operation lacks. I work full time and live 60 miles away from my sister and the other family member.

As background, I've always been very generous towards my sister, both with time and financially. She's just over a year my junior, and has always been in my shadow rather. I've had a much more successful career, for example, but I've never made a big deal out of it. Just recently, my career has stalled a little. So, being involved with a start up might revitalise my CV a bit.

At the first board meeting, the matter of shareholdings came up. I suggested 30/30/40 in favour of my sister. Her previous share, under the old ownership, was 25%. The retired family member said that she "just wanted to help [my sister]" and was willing to go down to 10%. She thought that I should have the same as her.

I said that I'd be willing to compromise at 20%, but since they were asking me to be finance director, build and run a website, twitter feed, web interface etc., and undertake considerable travel on company business, I felt that anything less wouldn't really be worth my while. I thought that it was important for us to be able to communicate calmly and sensibly, like (some) business people, rather than getting involved in the emotional stuff that often comes with family businesses.

My sister is not the most emotionally mature person; I love her, but she can be difficult if she doesn't get what she wants. She sulks and avoids conflict, which makes her passive aggressive; anybody who offends her must be made to pay, you know the sort of thing. She's also quite keen on imputing sinister motives to people. The other family member is from the same mould. I'm not perfect, but I'm not like them. Anyway.....

After the meeting, I spoke to my sister. She said that the business was her idea, that it should be hers and that she didn't think that I or the other family member deserved more than 10%. She said that she might not want me working in the business after all because she was worried that we'd fall out, citing previous sibling quarrels (of which there are few), that she didn't see that I brought much value and that she only asked me to join the business "to give me a bit of interest" (gee, thanks!). She then burst into tears and told me that she'd had a difficult year, so why couldn't I just do what she wanted? It turned into the usual routine: me treading on eggshells to avoid her sulks.

I said that 20% would be fair for somebody you expected to be your finance and IT director, as well as performing other duties in the business. She said, "just put in 10% of the effort then".

I think she's being quite greedy and selfish, frankly. I'd waive dividends, and she's drawing a salary as well as other benefits from the business. There's no way I'd short change her financially. Families are not like Dragons' Den, but I think that in a family business, you have to be businesslike and leave the personal stuff at the door. Also, she was prepared to give her colleague's husband, with no skills, 25% when she set up the business. Why am I only worth 10%?

I'm wondering about walking away, or at least making it clear what I'm prepared to contribute in exchange for 10% (which will be less than I'm doing now; I've been asked to give up 40% of my annual holiday entitlement for business-related activities, plus is it fair to ask me to drive 120 miles round trip for regular board meetings?). Not sure whether I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face though.

AIBU? Any thoughts? Thanks.

OP posts:
kinkyfuckery · 21/10/2013 11:12

Why not just take a salary?

BrokenSunglasses · 21/10/2013 11:13

Unless you think this will be amazing for your CV, or you really really want to do it for enjoyment, then I'd walk away tbh.

It sounds like its a recipe for resentment from at least one of you no matter which way you decide to split the shares.

MrsCampbellBlack · 21/10/2013 11:16

Walk away now.

Honestly for a business partnership to work you have to trust and respect the other partners totally or it will not work.

If you really want to be involved just perhaps do it on a consultancy basis but bearing in mind what you've said about your family dynamics, well I think you would be quite quite mad to get involved.

tharsheblows · 21/10/2013 11:21

I'd walk away. My sister is nothing like that so I am not saying that based on my experience with her, but my experience elsewhere with people who I don't have such emotional entanglements. It will be harder than that working with your sister, I think, rather than easier. And I don't think things like that get better, they start as they mean to go on.

ElleMcFearsome · 21/10/2013 11:22

Could you look at it from a perspective of separating the personal aspect for the business aspect? Basically, if this wasn't a family business, what would you be doing? And that's possibly then the correct answer?

Squitten · 21/10/2013 11:22

Present her with a choice : either £X salary or 20%. It's her business so it's her call but why should you compromise?

TBH, she doesn't sound like she's going to be fun to work with and I suspect this will quickly deteriorate into lots of extra work for increasingly difficult to get out of her rewards. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 11:23

Thanks.

The reasons for not taking a salary are (1) I'm already a higher rate taxpayer in my full time job and (2) I think that with my help the business could be really successful, so the reward would be the gain on exit in 5 - 10 years' time.

OP posts:
ediepop · 21/10/2013 11:24

Don't do it. Walk away. Your sister has made it clear she can't behave in a business like manner (bursting into tears) and you will not be able to separate family from business.

I have a little experience of this. DH went into business with a very close friend of both of ours. Friend, although very talented at some things, proved not to be the businessman he thought he was. DH eventually had to disentangle himself from the business, which was costly, lengthy and very stressful. They no longer speak.

Lonecatwithkitten · 21/10/2013 11:25

What is the current valuation of the business? At the start the business had no value so it is easy to give away 10% of nothing. I would suggest that the fairest way is for you to purchase your 20% at the current business valuation, take your proportional dividend and be paid a salary related to the work you do.

ginslinger · 21/10/2013 11:26

I would say that you will accept the 10% providing she pays consultancy rates for certain agreed things. However I would be nervous about going into business with anyone where things were this difficult at the start, but especially with a family member. You can't just walk away.

Ginocchio · 21/10/2013 11:27

YANBU

Can you calculate how much it would cost to do that work as an employee? To give some clarity to her about how much your input will be worth?

But honestly - if she can't deal with this in a calm & business like manner (before, presumably, any of the real stresses of running a business have started), then do you really want to be working together?

holidaysarenice · 21/10/2013 11:29

Get out now. Its clear that ur ds and family member are acting as one. You will always be the lone voice.

There is a reason why the previous member wanted her husband there. And why they have left - it should ring alarm bells.

At the right price you might be involved not manipulated. Alternatively you offer ur services of a freeland/contract basis, at freelance charges.

YoureBeingADick · 21/10/2013 11:30

You actually both just sound like your out for the best deal. You have just placed a higher value on your skills than she has. You have tried to negotiate and no deal has been reached so you should walk away- like you would in any other business scenario. The fact that you dont seem to like your sister very much is another reason why you should walk away.

SoupDragon · 21/10/2013 11:32

Just walk away.

QuintessentialShadows · 21/10/2013 11:32

Walk away.

The business might be successful, but not without a person with business sense at the helm, and it does not sound like your sister has much business nous.

She is right when she says it may lead to you falling out. You have not yet started, and she is stomping her feet and bringing on the water works.

Just tell her you respect her decision.

If you want something for your CV, then I suggest you look at involving yourself as an ANGEL INVESTOR, then you can bring your experience to a start up and do something worthwhile that wont bump your tax situation up any further.

Or do an MBA.

CharityFunDay · 21/10/2013 11:34

Do you want to do it? That's the question.

If you do, then you need to explain to her that you're not doing her a 'Big Sis' favour, you're coming on board her business and that you expect professional treatment in order to do a professional job. Negotiate hard. She doesn't sound like she would be hard work to persuade if she's just a bit (ahem) highly-strung, so don't let yourself be manipulated emotionally.

If your heart's not really in it, and it feels like you would be doing her a favour, then fuck her off.

In your situation, and genuinely believing that you could make a difference and that the business could go places, I would go for the former ... but keep an exit strategy up your sleeve.

SoupDragon · 21/10/2013 11:34

If you are already disagreeing, it isn't going to go well IMO.

EldritchCleavage · 21/10/2013 11:43

Walk away.

You have the worst of all possible worlds: a relationship that is not on a proper professional footing, and which has the potential completely to destroy the personal relationship.

This stood out for me: she didn't see that I brought much value and that she only asked me to join the business "to give me a bit of interest" (gee, thanks!). She then burst into tears and told me that she'd had a difficult year, so why couldn't I just do what she wanted? It turned into the usual routine: me treading on eggshells to avoid her sulks.

She is demanding a significant commitment from you but already downplaying your value to the business. Worst of all, she is trying to get you to agree to things that are not hugely in your interest by crying and emotional manipulation.

I don't think you can work together because of this, and in your position I'd be worried that your sister would not honour agreements with you.

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 11:47

Thanks ladies. Good advice.

I do like and love my sister, but I find her difficult to deal with when she doesn't get her own way.

I like some of the suggestions and will investigate further.

Out of interest, has anybody ever dealt with this situation and overcome it?

OP posts:
Lonecatwithkitten · 21/10/2013 11:53

I paid cash for my 15% share in our family business, took my dividends and was paid the going rate for my work in the business. This was my parents business.

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 12:02

Thanks. Should have added, I was going to subscribe at the relevant % of the business's value, not at par, and the book value of the business isn't much at the moment because a lot of the value was extracted in cash to buy out the two former shareholders (sister and family member also took a dividend).

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 21/10/2013 12:03

A friend of mine has just brought some expertise on board to her company, two new unsalaried directors with a share of 22% each (allowing her and her dh the bigger share). They have brought in new contracts worth a million within a month of working with her. I think you need to look carefully at how much money you will bring to the business either in terms of contracts, or how much money your work will save the company.

I would not say that web design/management, digital marketing and social media are high value skills, these are pretty junior roles in marketing. (From the perspective of having a digital marketing qualification and having taken on that role alongside my normal duties in our own company - it only requires a couple of hours per week)

Are you responsible for her business/marketing plan? Strategy? Securing finance and investment as a Finance Director, or just doing her books? You need to look carefully at what you are bringing to the table.

But, as you already disagree, I think you should walk away.

QuintessentialShadows · 21/10/2013 12:12

Does she know you plan to sell your share of her business in a couple of years?

Financeprincess · 21/10/2013 12:13

Yes, I am responsible for all of the above. I've already contributed some ideas that should bring in significant revenue. I'm not fooling myself that web management etc. is a highly valuable skill; being an experienced senior finance professional is, though. The web stuff is just another demand upon my time, which I think is too much for a stake of 10%.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 21/10/2013 12:15

Just dont do the web stuff then. Stick to finance. She can get her website done cheaply if she outsource on freelancer.com She can do the digital marketing herself.