AIBU if I don’t want to go in on a house with my IL’s?

[CanucksoontobeinLondon]

We’re moving to London next year. A few days ago my in-laws came up with a proposal. They would sell a rental property they own and put the money into our new house. It wouldn’t be a gift, it would be a long-term investment for them. Well, it would be a gift of a kind, because they wouldn’t be getting any rental income from our property while we’re in it, they’d just be getting their share back if/when we sell in future.

My initial reaction was No. Frelling. Way. I’ve heard way too many horror stories over the years about family going in on real estate together, and it all ending in tears. Or worse, in court. Don’t get me wrong, my IL’s are nice people, but this could go so wrong. They’ve always been very hands-off in the past, but they’ve always been an ocean away, so they haven’t had the opportunity to be hands-on. They offered to help out with school fees after we move, and are already starting to take a proprietary interest in which schools we pick. Plus, years ago when DH and I bought our first apartment, my parents gave us a gift of money towards the deposit. And then felt they should be consulted about every swatch of paint that went into that apartment.

DH’s initial reaction was that I was turning down a good idea, and his parents are much more reasonable than my parents were (thanks, DH). However, we talked it over, and eventually both agreed that it was a bad idea. Partly because he has two siblings, and neither of them has been offered this deal as far as we know. This could lead to serious resentment by his sibilings. There were just too many variables we wouldn’t be able to control, as well, in terms of what if IL’s get into financial difficulties in future and need their share back (it’s not especially likely, but anything’s possible). DH politely turned IL’s down yesterday, and this morning MIL was on the phone in floods of tears, talking about how ungrateful we’re being. DH is now wavering. He hates to upset his mother.

I am even more against it than I was before. I don’t want to go into business with someone who’s going to burst into tears when they don’t get what they want. DH is also wavering, I suspect, because even though he’ll be making more money at the new job, given property prices in London, he’s effectively taking a paycut to move. We’re in one of the most expensive real estate markets in Canada, but it’s a drop in the ocean compared to London. My attitude is okay, we don’t get to live exactly where we want, and we don’t get as big a house as we have now, so what? At least we keep our independence. I’d only consider it if we were in dire straits, which we’re not. The whole point of the move is so the kids will be close to the extended family they have left. (My parents have both passed away, and I was an only child) What’s the point of moving if we might end up not on speaking terms with his family within a few years?

I’m concocting doomsday scenarios here, I know. AIBU, and if not, how do I convince DH to stand fast? I’m posting this on lunch and then going into meetings, then making the DCs their dinner, so I likely won’t be able to respond for quite a while, unless one of my meetings gets cancelled. But thanks in advance for your replies. I will be reading them.

I am going to make my DC an interest-free loan. We will have a legal arrangement whereby they pay back the money so I will get my money back month by month but will have no particular say in what they buy or how they decorate it.

You need to read a current thread on here about parents who want their money back from a similar investment. Very messy!

Actually, the paying school fees offer is likely to stir up even more resentment now. SIL may feel that the PIL are just funneling their £ to the grandchildren as a means of disguising their favouritism of your DH. She might even be right.

And the fact your PIL want a lot of say over schools is a very bad thing. You can't do these things by committee, especially as you know your children so much better than they do and your MIL minimises the SN.

How would you feel if your DS was not settling and was unhappy and your PIl were saying they liked his school and would not continue to contribute to fees if he was moved?

BeastofBurden, unfortunately we won’t be 100 miles away from them. We’ll be in SW London and they’re in Cobham, in Surrey. Maybe we should be looking at schools and houses in North London instead, put the bulk of the city between us! DH thinks MIL will calm down some once we’re actually there. To be fair to her, she always starts out being really full-on during visits, and then after about 2, maybe 3 days of it being All Granny Time, All the Time, she settles down and starts interacting with us and the kids on our own terms. So she may well calm down once she’s seeing them, say, once or twice a month instead of once a year. And definitely, definitely no popping in.

EldritchCleaver, I’m beginning to think you’re right about the school fees potentially causing even more resentment. It’s BIL who’s really mad, incidentally, not SIL. SIL is mad, don’t get me wrong, but is directing it mostly at the appropriate targets (i.e. her parents). BIL and DH have a more complicated relationship, and BIL has long felt that DH is the favoured son (not only because DH has kids, but because DH is the straight one). BIL jokes about it, but only half-jokingly, if you know what I mean. It’s complicated, and has complicated DH’s relationship with BIL over the years. Until the other day, things had been pretty good between them for several years, but we seem to be going rapidly backwards now.

And as you say, what happens if DS doesn’t settle in a school, but PIL want him to stay anyway? I am definitely going to raise these points with DH. I’d like to think it would never come to that, but we need to be prepared for the worst, just in case.

The thing is, with special needs, a state school may be your better option in any case. Though in London, I don't know.

SW London to Cobham might geographically look a short distance but it could take up to an hour to travel it, depending on where you are in SW London! So not quite as close as you think, maybe (I used to live near there).

So glad that your DH had decided to turn it down given the fall-out - your BIL is being a touch histrionic about it, since it has been turned down but I suppose he feels just irritated that his parents offered it to your DH in the first place (although how he considers that to be your DH's fault is crazy; that is the irrational part of his anger). Hopefully your SIL will be able to help direct his anger in the more appropriate direction, as she has!

Btw Canuck, extra points for the "frelling".

Lisianthus, wasn't Farscape an awesome, awesome show? DH introduced me to it when we were first dating. I still miss it. My DD came this close to being named Aeryn.

BeastofBurden, I have pointed out to DH several times that a state school might be DS's best option. However, he is adamant that state schools in the UK have appalling educational standards. To which my response is that he doesn't actually live there right now, and he's never had a child in education in the UK, so he's getting his info from newspapers. I think it's a comfort thing. He was educated privately, so were his siblings, and so were about half his friends. Plus, the DD of an old friend of his had a very bad experience at a state school in London. But London is a big place!

Thumbwitch, good to know re: Cobham and SW London not being as close as they look on a map. You relieve my mind! And yeah, I agree that BIL is being a bit histrionic. He's a really sweet guy, but a bit temperamental. Hopefully he'll simmer down soon, or at least focus his frustration on a more deserving target.

"Vancouver has freakishly warm winters compared to the rest of the country".
Yup :o

Enjoying the freakishly warm and sunny October we're having and hoping for one of those fabulous winters. :o

I can only echo what everyone else is saying. Good for you for saying no.

It was fab. And Aeryn was deeply cool (and had a great name!)

Perhaps you could educate via state school for primary and move private for secondary? That might take the pressure off a bit financially, and also help re waiting lists to get in as it gives you a bit more lead time.

OP I came on to say don't touch this with someone else's barge pole, so glad to see the resolution. Fiends if ours were in a similar situation and it made her ill with worry when they came to sell.

Ah, the snobbery of the privately educated. Let me guess - you were state educated and its done you just fine? DH and I are in a similar position. When we met he was adamant that no-one can have had a "proper" education from the state sector. And he's right that there are gaps in my history knowledge compared to him (his barometer). But my stare education also gave me a much better sense of social ease among people not exactly like me and an understanding that we don't all trip off to ski every winter and holiday in mummy and daddy's little place in the summer - that's slightly unfair because neither did he, but you get my point.

As others have pointed out, given your DS's SN the state sector may be the best bet. Very best of luck with it all. Welcome (back?) to the UK!

DNephew has ASD. He's attending the best provision he could for thirty miles (rural area). Which happens to be his catchment primary school .

OP you sound like a nice, decent, kind person.

Word of advice - stop seeing your MIL as a 'lovely but emotional' person. Crying when she doesn't get her way, phoning your dh sobbing because of some minor happening, expecting to have a say in where you live and where your children go to school by bribing you with money...NO.

Get tough. You can have a perfectly nice relationship with her, you don't have to fall out with her but hold her at arm's length, stick to your guns and trust your instincts here.

To others saying they are owed a say in your dc's education if they pay for it - no, that's not how truly generous and loving parents behave. They decide to help their children financially and leave the decision making to them. Of course, it's always a risk you run with bullish people - that they will see it as their right to meddle and that's why I wouldn't do this no matter how expensive schooling and London property is (I live in London - I know!!).

Canuck, one of the uncomfortable truths that your DH may not be facing right now is that private schools vary. I have had 1 DC in private, 1 in state comprehensive and 1 in state SEN school. My two ounces bth have SEN, my eldest has a gift for science and so after much thought and advice, we left state sector at 11 and went to a very high achieving private school.

Bt if your DC has SEN he may well not be accepted by a high achieving private school. They don't have to. A lower achieving private school can be a difficult place, some are lovely but others are chippy and snobbish. If your DH thinks your child will do better academically at a non selective private school than at a good state comprehensive with proper SEN provision, it sounds as if he is also a bit in denial about his SEN.

Agree with other posters, try to pick an area of London with good state primary provision and be prepared to move at secondary stage.

Ounces= youngest, that was weird.

I also don't think that your husband's parents should have loads of imput because they're paying. You see, all of us would agree that the most important thing is that it is actually the best environment for the children concerned (within commuting distance anyway). I've been struggling to word it to myself, so half the thread has already beaten me to this!

I don't think it's possible to put your children's needs first while you also feel it's your duty to make a choice that satifies 2 other adults, who live overseas and do not even admit your son has ASD. As long as you continue to think it is your duty, you'll be more vulnerable to being persuaded into a choice the grandparents lurrrrve but turns out to be crappy for the children.

DO NOT DO IT. Your instincts are spot on.

Does anyone remember the MNer who's IL's had paid towards their house, kept coming and going, telling them how to decorate it and threatened to chuck them out?

MrsHoratioNelson, I was educated at a state school for elementary school (what you call primary school) and then at a private secondary school. At 16 I had a minor nervous breakdown and dropped out of the private school. Eventually went back, but to the local state school, which got me through to graduation. So yeah, I have mixed feelings about private education.

I thought you might do. And what I forgot to mention is that my state school picked up that I was coasting and pushed me (net result max grades); DH's school failed to pick it up and he got the (bad) shock of his life come results day. So these expensive schools aren't always perfect.

OK, update time. After much discussion, we've decided to turn down the school fees offer.

SIL is okay with PIL paying, but warned us to expect some well-intended interference on the subject of school choice. BIL is not okay, feels it's very unfair that we'd be getting this substantial financial help, especially when DH makes more money than he does.BIL knew about the school fees offer before the property offer, but kept his mouth shut about his feelings at the time, not wanting to be a grinch. He is no longer keeping his mouth shut, in the aftermath of the property offer debacle. It would become a perpetual grievance, and ultimately, DH is not prepared to torpedo his (already fragile) relationship with his only brother over it.

Furthermore, we know our kids best, and we can't be sure PIL will butt out and let us choose the right school(s). And we don't want to be beholden to them, but rather to have a relationship of equals. I am playing Lady Macbeth in the background, urging DH to screw his courage to the sticking point and face his mom's tears when he politely turns it down. He's inevitably going to upset her sometimes, especially when we're living in the same time zone and seeing more of each other, so he needs the practice!

The state v. private debate goes on, and I have no idea when or how it will be resolved.

I'm feeling a bit disgruntled, because we had a babysitter last night, and basically spent all of our romantic evening out discussing all the above at length instead of being carefree and kid free. Oh well. There will be other nights out.

At least everything is out in the open. It's much better for everyone to be open about their feelings even if it's a bit awkward.

Your BIL has done nothing wrong by saying he would be irritated if your in-laws paid the school fees. Although, of course, your in laws are allowed to spend their money on whatever they wish.

You know what, Canuck? If you choose your house carefully in SW London (take local advice, visit the schools in person and check the council website for maps of distance offers), your children could be having a perfectly decent education entirely free of charge. I went to a SW London private school, but I think education has changed loads since I was young and my daughter is currently in state education, doing really well and I have no plans to alter that at secondary level unless things change massively in the next few years. We are in Richmond, in case that was one of the areas you might be considering. The local SEN provision is generally quite good from what I have heard. DD's (much) older friend who has ASD recently moved up to secondary school and is doing wonderfully - really happy and has been looked after quite incredibly well.

Good luck. I think you are doing the right thing.

Or you could consider whether your family would look kindly on the isea that you accept some financial help towards school fees ( if that is what you feel you want for your children) but have it legally written into your pils will so that you receive that amount less upon their death.