to think this is very disruptive??

[macdoodle]

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school ).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit , it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

I mean a large proportion of today's generation have ASD and many of them could thrive in mainstream given correct support..it is important for them to be included I feel and not all shipped off to a specialist school.

Some will need it but not the great majority.

It is often a different way of learning which can be accommodated.

I have no idea why they didn't have a quiet room where boy in OP could go to learn if he was feeling pressurised..first thing I would do.

People are of course free to start any campaign they wish,,I personally have no energy for campaigning

OP, a very simple idea which your school could try (if they would listen) is this:

When DS was at primary, he hated being in the crowded classroom. Wouldn't settle there for anything. Would disrupt things like mad to get taken out.

When a wiser than average autism advisor came in and was asked by the despairing staff how on earth they could keep DS on task given he cared not one jot for any rewards they'd tried, she said, 'What's his main motivator? To get out of there. So, you reward quiet, focused work by letting him out of the classroom.'

It went against the grain with school to release him whenever he was working well, but by god it had results.

Yes! I said a few posts back about setting up a campaign and someone else did to. Shall we open a new thread to get this off the ground then anyone who wants to be involved and have a say can.

I know you said that. I am not taking issue with you..I just remarked we have seen lots of mentions of campaigning for specialist provision but not really any for improving support in mainstream, which is needed immensely.

I do think a campaign just for specialist provision would be wrong somehow if it didn't equally include a demand for better support in mainstream

I would guess the proportion of children who could thrive in mainstream if they were given proper support is higher than those who just couldn't manage and need specialist provision.

Even the boy in the OP. He could possibly thrive very well if educated in the way that suits him

What would be good, and possibly less expensive, would be more Mainstream schools with specialist units attached. I think that could cater to those with HFA but places are very sparse at the moment.

Clearly chucking kids into a school environment where they can't cope is not going to work.

I honestly didn't think you were talking issue with me and I didn't really have a preconceived idea of which direction the campaign would take if you know what I mean as all children with any disability or special needs have such individual cases. That's why I asked where a good place to start would be. Lots have people have said that there arent enough places for children in SN schools in their county as well so when we talk about SN provisions it should be the whole system. Like I said I'm rubbish at this sort of thing (and not very eloquent) but I'd really like to help move things forward with improving our edcation system

Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people do not know what "tolerance" means. It does not mean "submission" and it does not mean" love". This is why, as a gay woman, Martina Navaratilova said that she doesn't want to be "tolerated", as it doesn't mean what an awful lot of the posters on this thread WANT it to mean. The OP's child IS tolerating, along with the rest of the class, the child with SN. She doesn't appear to be teasing or pointing out the "difference" of the SN child, to the child when said child has one of his triggering moments. If she did, that would be teasing, surely? To suggest that by talking to her mother about the disruption in class caused by the behaviour of the child with SN does not mean that the OP's child is "intolerant" is not progressive. What is non progressive is the subliminal suggestion that the children should be damn near grateful for the disruption as "tolerance" will be the only "skill" that they will need in life to the point that SN children have no other use than to be conduits for better behaviour of those without special needs. Patronising and "othering" (weird from my perspective as I have always had a SN person in my extended family, whether here, or abroad). Surely the WHOLE class would benefit from better behavioural management of the suffering SN child? I hope that his parents are the kind that are aware that more effort has to be made by their SN child, too, combined with presumed understanding . No young child should be expected to just understand what the hell is going on without any explanation when the SN child suffers anxiety. Maybe the parents and teachers should think outside the box and have some kind of "getting to know you" session between Sn pupil and non SN pupils. The SN child is apparently of high intelligence and doesn't want to be isolated (potentially triggering ). Maybe some on here with SN children may think that this will put onus on the SN child, but in the real world, outside from the usual,assumed protection of parents, children have to accept responsibilities that they would not ordinarily undertake, in order to grow. If not, why have a SN child in a mainstream school, if only to be treated and understood as some kind of "exotique". Most of the parents that I know with SN child in mainstream school are not as "defensive" as some on here...and do not presume that the "non defensiveness" means that their children are less loved than yours. They are just aware that their children are "special needs", not "more special than other kids". They want their children to properly assimilate into this world and humanity with dignity and navigational skills and be upfront about what is wrong with them as tolerance, unfortunately, means different things to different people.

Local Authorities differ but I know for a fact there are practically no secondaries (or primaries) in my local authority with special support units. Which means the choice is mainstream or special. At least 2 of my kids would manage in mainstream with such a unit to go to for the areas where they struggle, but they just don't exist here.

I only have a child with SN and I find your post extremely insulting and patronising stooshe.

She isn't in mainstream but if she was she wouldn't be an "exotique"

I find it highly insulting you say we don't think others can care for their children as much.

Actually I don't know where to start with your post because to me it's an insulting patronising offensive load of nonsense tbh.

stooshe

The parents of children with SN on this board are not "decensive" - they're just speaking as freely as you or I.

I think you might be surprised by what the parents with children who have SN that you know actually think sometimes.

I freely admit I get angry and bitter in response to posts like that where you imply the parents if children with sN you know know their place and dont think their children are more special than others but merely want them accepted.

What a nerve you have.

It's the sentiment that my children aren't as worthy of an education as your own.

They are children, same as yours. They have the same right to an education.

The difference between my children and yours is that mine were born with their brains wired differently, so yes I will get angry and bitter when you treat them as lesser because it could so very easily have been you in my shoes.

I don't want my children tolerated. I want them accepted for who they are. Not treated as animals, an inconvenience or lesser.

I would love to see greater inclusiveness in mainstream schools where appropriate and excellent support for that inclusiveness. Also special schools/units as needed and somehow inclusiveness of those schools into the local community. It's just a logical investment in everyone's wellbeing.

There's huge barriers to achieving this - financial, bureaucratic, political.
But mainly I think the attitude of many parents not dealing with SNs just stinks and they would undoubtedly resist moves towards greater inclusiveness of anyone 'different' if it appeared to impact on their child. I can understand it - the anxiety, the fear for the future, the urge to pull up the drawbridge and defend your own. I get like that too sometimes. Doesn't lead anywhere good though.

Am trying different campaigns of my own - talking to friends and family, to my son, to the parents of the children with special needs in DS's class, doing a bit of hospitality for everyone here at home, getting involved at school. Whatever it takes to get us all to calm down, have a laugh and start collaborating. Small potatoes, I know. Going to actively do a bit of volunteering soon. Any other avenues for stealth type hearts and minds campaigns?

I have had enough.

I have said it so many times..but really..

We get hideous comments made by disablist posters/trolls. Then we get called bitter and angry by the other side for reacting.

What actually is the point. These threads are not educating anyone and as far as I can see the campaign is not changing much opinion on MN and people aren't actually reading it.

The rest of MN is full of people ripping each other apart and some fairly offensive views...so really..it's a no brainer.

Take care all

Fanjo, I'm PC gorrrnn mad on another thread apparently

And I will never shut up about these things that I am passionate about.

Stooshe, I couldn't even read your post. It made my eyes want to bleed. But I get the gist.

stooshe before I even READ what on surface appears to be rather patronising... I must copy paste it somewhere and break it up to read the damn thing... I have one word for you right now....PARAGRAPHS!!!!!

FFS.... off to read and probably back to respond... sigh

Okay. Yeah. Patronising. Definitely. Not sure if that's what you were going for but that's what you got.

I hope that his parents are the kind that are aware that more effort has to be made by their SN child, too, combined with presumed understanding

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying the parents should be GRATEFUL that more effort is being made? Because that's kind of how it's coming off. And I certainly don't feel I should feel grateful that society accepts my child - especially his school. It should just... be done. Because it's the right thing to do.

The OP's child IS tolerating, along with the rest of the class, the child with SN. She doesn't appear to be teasing or pointing out the "difference" of the SN child, to the child when said child has one of his triggering moments. If she did, that would be teasing, surely? To suggest that by talking to her mother about the disruption in class caused by the behaviour of the child with SN does not mean that the OP's child is "intolerant" is not progressive.

The OP stated the children find it "hysterical" and "great fun" - that leaves it somewhat open for interpretation, but as the OP's DD is coming home with tales of what the child is doing every day, I suspect that the child himself is not "in" on the joke. It does sound a bit like telling tales with relish, and if my child was doing that, I would be making very clear that instead of finding the child's behaviour amusing, it would be more appropriate to either be helpful or encourage other classmates to be supportive rather than laughing at the child. I certainly wouldn't encourage my child to spread tales about another child. I'm afraid I don't see that as tolerating.... and tolerating isn't the goal anyway. Acceptance (and support if possible) is.

Maybe the parents and teachers should think outside the box and have some kind of "getting to know you" session between Sn pupil and non SN pupils.

It's possible the parents do not want his medical information discussed with all and sundry. It's a fine line between sharing information and disclosing confidential information. I wouldn't want to see a parent pressured into this type of thing. I certainly wouldn't want to be.

They are just aware that their children are "special needs", not "more special than other kids".

First of all... it's not "children are special needs"... children HAVE special needs. It is not the sum total of their existence you know. And this: not "more special than other kids" is exactly why I am growing to hate the term "special needs." My son is disabled. I'm not going to soft pedal it by using a more fuzzy term of special needs. He is disabled. I've never claimed he is more special than other kids in society.

But it's my responsibility to make sure he gets the education he's legally entitled to, and if that means standing up to the school or the LA or someone in the general public that is putting up roadblocks to him getting that education, then so be it. Not really that complicated, is it?