to leave a friend in the lurch?

[ARoundSoundLikeGround]

Back story; my OH and I have been saving for years for a deposit on a house. We finally found the first home of our dreams and, after a few cold-feet moments on his part, placed an offer which was accepted.

In preparation, we handed in our notice at our lovely rented accommodation - he will be moving in with his parents with the dog at the end of the month and I have moved in with a friend who also happens to live considerably closer to my work. (There's not enough room at his parents for us both, plus thats a situation I wouldn't want to be in!)

OH started to have wobbles (about his work life mainly) and it resulted in some serious arguing and a real contemplation as to whether we should go through with the house buy. But its all resolved and everything is hunky dory.

Friend - let's call her Jane - knows about everything.

The original plan was for me to move in with Jane for about six months whilst we renovate the house, OH would stay at his parents. However Jane has been having a lot of problems recently; a (not close) family member died and she broke up with her boyfriend (thus the need of a housemate).

I moved in about 5 weeks ago, and was a little shocked about the house. It had never been a clean house - quite student-accomodation like - but liveable. However the place is now a tip. Kim & Aggy, don't take your shoes off, don't touch the walls shit tip. The carpet looks like someone has given birth on it, you can't really tell though through the inch thick layer of black dog hair from her (extremely large) dog. Betty (the dog) was sick the other night and Jane simply scraped up the sick bits and left it at that.

I cannot explain how filthy this house is, but trust me it is disgusting. She works from home so I have no idea how she can cope with it.

Unfortuantely I'm never there long enough to clean significantly (I basically only stay overnight - back about 6pm leave at 6am) and I certainly don't have time to add to the mess ( I eat dinner at work because I'm a bit frightened off the kitchen which is crawling with dirt) I study in the evenings a lot.

On top of this, Jane seems to have flipped. Before she was the nicest person I knew, now it seems like I can't say anything without her trying to twist it into an argument. Everything I say gets a huge inquisition and (being quite insecure) I'm finding this really hard to cope with.

The house sale is due to complete in 4-5 weeks.
Jane desperately needs a housemate (though clearly doesn't want one) and probably will struggle to find another after me because of how big and badly behaved Betty is and the state of the house.

But I really don't think I can stay there any longer being belittled and having to shower at work because I can't seem to get clean in her bathroom.

WIBU to give her 4 weeks notice on Monday and move into the new house (which is liveable, all problems are cosmetic) and leave Jane in the lurch financially?

(I have endless sympathy for her re: her current circumstances (boyfriend, family death) but this happened months ago and she just seems to be getting worse.)

'PM me, I don't mind helping you sort your shit.'

Aww, how lovely are you eh?

I must admit that I get a bit of a kick when I've brought order to other peoples chaotic possessions (got to get them where you can ) and wouldn't mind helping someone a couple of days to sort their shit (although that's not an offer unfortunately PomBear, I'm not as nice as Pices not in a place to freely mingle with other people (in a MH rather than I'm banged up way )).

But I'd only do it if they were at the point where they'd made efforts themselves and were up for doing it long term, what would be the point else?

What a lovely offer Pisces !

OP as a clinical psychologist who admittedly doesn't spend much time at all with your friend I think you're far too quick to dismiss depression as a factor in this. Your friend has been through a break up and it's clearly had a knock on effect on her ability to look after herself/ maintain her environment. Maybe make some time to actually sit down and have a conversation about this?

I could have phrased my offer more eloquently. It is still heartfelt.

Err, I have been displaying conpletely normal behaviour plus maintaining a cleanizh but messy place while deeply depressed. Always well dressed and well groomed. Would have a very short fuse/ paranoid about what people say to me (esp. clise to me), hence picking up fights with them.

And no, you WNBU to leave her 'in a lurch'. You don't seem to be that good friends and you don't owe her anything. Mice out with given appropriate notice.

As tiptop said

"OP as a clinical psychologist who admittedly doesn't spend much time at all with your friend I think you're far too quick to dismiss depression as a factor in this"

In fact your dismissive tone and a sense that you know to be a fact something that is not that simple... Well it took me aback rather. As a clinical psychologist do you know how many masks, hiding and variables are involved in the complexities of mental well being.

I think that majority of people I interact with, some on a daily basis) have not the first idea how I am feeling, what mh symptoms I might or might not be displaying, or my state of mind at all. Not even if they are 'qualified' in some way.

'As a clinical psychologist do you know how many masks, hiding and variables are involved in the complexities of mental well being.'

As a clinical psychologist I would expect the OP to be aware of those factors and to have said what she has regardless.

I would say most people would think 'are you OK?' if they went into someone's house and it was a shit heap. You don't need any training for that.

The OP's said her friend has had problems recently and she's noticed a deterioration in the state of the house, so she's not ignoring the possibility that there are issues.

Although it's equally as likely that living on the inside of the shit might have skewed how she sees it. You might think a clinical psychologist has all the answers, but they're people who are influenced by the same things as the rest of us, as why else would she post here? Surely she should do what she'd encourage clients (?) to do when she's in her professional role and know she shouldn't feel guilty in a physician heal thyself way.

I am puzzled by this thread.

This arrangement was only ever meant to be temporary OP.

So you move out in four weeks.

That was expected all along, surely?

Perhaps, if you think the friendship is still viable, you could help your temporary landlord make her flat livable-in and help her advertise for a new lodger.

But your responsibility to her doesn't go any further than that imho. Indeed, it probably doesn't even go as far as that to start with.

Do you really want to live in a shithole with someone who is plainly not rubbing along well with you, when you could be living in a new home with your OH and starting a new life together?

Why is this even a question for you?

As for the detour into possible MH issues, I don't think that's relevant. Some people are just fucking slobs. It's not a diagnostic. I had an auntie who lived in a very similar fashion to your friend. She was just a filthy person. Living with her would have been my worst nightmare, and I am not a tidy person.

Errr I don't think clinical psychologists have all the answers - why would I?

I do think that bringing her profession into it to shut down the 'depression/ mh angle' on the thread felt like a strong knee jerk reaction which needed questioning. Which I did.

Perhaps some work on boundaries and roles would help. If someone is having a personal and very human reaction to a situation, maybe trying to layer that with her professional role within a thread shows exactly the issue you've just expressed.

There was no 'physician heal thyself' coming from my response. I'm sorry you seem to have thought there was.

YABU, she is clearly in a low place. If you feel unable to stay there, could you not also move in with your OH? My (ex) bf moved in with me, it was a single bed, so can be done. Wasn't ideal though.

I don't understand how she is such a good friend she knows everything but you never knew she lived in this squalor. She can't be that close if you have never been in her house before. I would leave, I just couldn't stick living there and would get out as soon as possible. Why aren't you with DH all this time though. Surely any solution should involve keeping you together as a priority.
I agree the term depression is so often diagnosed on here by people who are not qualified and have never met, let along properly assessed the person.

Charity, it really is relevant.

How?

Say that the 'landlord' does have MH issues (which is so far purely hot air conjecture), how would that make her temporary lodger responsible for looking after/supporting her?

There are professionals to do that sort of thing.

Move out

And have you actually said this house is a disgusting mess so I will be moving out ASAP

OP clearly said that she knew her friend was messy but didn't realise that it was the boyfriend who did all the cleaning. OP's own boyfriend is staing with his parents and she can't move in there. It wasn't till the house sale went through but was meant to be for six months while the had some work done.

Now she is feeling that it would be better to live with the work being done than in a dirty house with a friend who picks fights with her. A friend who wasn't like this at all before.

I do think you need to help your friend but definitely YANBU to move out.

I doubt you are the one who can help her though. It sounds like she is mad at her boyfriend but he's not there and you are. Until she is over that I would say that there's not a lot else you can do except talk to her other friends and make sure you guys call her etc so she doesn't isolate herself. And see if there is one of you who might be able to get her to go seek help.

re: the depression diagnosis - those were examples. She is not displaying symptoms of depression except being v v messy.

breaking up with bf and being messy and argumentative does not automatically give someone a diagnosis of a mental illness.

I have talked to her at length about her feelings aand health since the two events. She is not depressed.

Being as nice as possible im a bit as to why people think they are in a better position to diagnose a mental illness from reading a thread than a clin. psychologist who has been living with them for almost 6 weeks

I was expected to stay for at least 6 months whilst we did up the house

I'm sorry for the knee-jerk clin. psych reaction. I know it was abrupt but at the beginning I worried about depression too (I also have first hand experience of it having had it for about 10 years). This is why I didn't immediately move out upon the state of it or tackle her with it straight on.

I'm not going to bore you with everything but we've been through a lot of therapy techniques and I'm confident that she is just a little sad that her boyfriend was such a bastard.

An upsetting life event plus bad habits don't equal depression. I see people with depression every day and, as I said, have it myself. Outside of work it gets very difficult when people use it to describe everyday situations or think that people being sad, or lazy, or grumpy must be "depressed". It is neither a simple diagnosis or a nice one.

(Though equally it is awful when people make out that it doesn't exist)

I'm sorry for not explaining myself better but I knew everybody's immediate reaction was going to be "she's clearly got depressed" when she hasn't.

little sad that her boyfriend was such a bastard. Sorry, that was awful and patronising. Didn't mean it like that at all. I mean to say that its not as serious as depression, just sadness. Of course being sad is still awful and of course she is having a rough time of it.

It's far to early in the morning! Sorry!

One suggestion that I don't think anyone has touched on.....
The cleanliness thing. Maybe that's just how she lives and gets pissed off when someone tries to clean as its a way of saying "I think you live in a shit pit" and can feel insulted!
Growing up my parents were certainly not house proud!! They both worked 6 days a week a d spent spare time doing stuff with us rather than keeping a tidy house so it wasn't through laziness. My nan used to let the dog out at lunchtime and sometimes we would come home and she had had a massive tidy up and been cleaning. I know she would have done it to be helpful but it really really used to piss my mum off as she felt it was insulting to her. I never used to understand why my mum would feel that way but I do now.... My house is clean and tidy, I live normally and by that I mean my house can be messy but I like to have it looking really nice when we have guests etc (I know I'm not alone!!) whereas my MIL lives in a bloody show home standard house. I came home from work when she had visited and she had completely emptied the fridge and scrubbed it (and thrown away loads of jars of stuff that I would have kept etc) she had also cleaned out my kitchen cupboards and larder!! My DH was gushing "wow what an amazing thing she's done for us" ..... I was fucking livid!!! Why would you clean out someone's fridge when you are visiting unless you think its disgusting! It made me feel like she went home judging me!! Yes my standards are not as high as hers but they are not that bad! (My friends are far worse!!) so maybe your friend is actually feeling insulted by your cleaning? She is probably fully aware that her place is a shit tip but doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when people try to 'help'. She's obviously happy living like that?? Time to move out I think!

Why don't you get a load of bin bags, a carpet cleaner, industrial rubber gloves for both of you and sort it?

It will take a day to do if you do it full on, put a peg on your nose and crack on.

Leave-say house has come along quicker than expected, give some dosh in leiu and go.

This sounds like an awful situation but I'm not buying your attitude to the cleaning I'm afraid. "I don't like cleaning" isn't doing it for me.
She needs help to get her house in order after her bf left. Even if you are paying rent, you are not staying in a hotel. You need to work together.
So ask her - do you like living like this or is this a problem.
If she likes it (some people do) then respect her answer and leave or put up.
If its actually a problem she feels powerless to solve (my hunch) then it's spring clean time! Put aside a weekend and tackle it together. Once it's cleaned up, you need to do your share to keep it that way. Even if she works at home it's not on to expect her to do all the cleaning.
If you "haven't got time" then I read that as meaning you haven't got anything to invest in this friendship. Go and find some other accommodation. But your friend needs help, you need to pull your weight in the house. If that's too needy for you, then leave. Remember she's helping you out too.

Even if Op's friend is depressed , does that still mean OP should then put up with living in a dump. I'm more inclined to believe the clinical psychologist who rooms with the girl somehow though.
I'd move out for the sake of your friendship , someone who leaves dog vomit on the carpet isn't just ignoring their housework they are just a genuinely filthy sort of person .

YANBU

and you are not leaving her in the lurch. From what you have said you've talked through everything with her, tries to clean but given up because she WILL NOT clean at all, not even with you when you are cleaning, and spent six months trying to make living with her work, ensure she is not depressed, and help her with rent that she badly needs.

I think you have done all a good friend can do and shouldn't carry on. Go and stop feeling guilty. You are a good friend.