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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask those with nice, clean tidy home how you do it.

158 replies

FortyDoorsToNowhere · 10/10/2013 21:38

I have spent 11 hours already this week trying to sort this house out. I have got rid of a lot of junk, but still have my wardrobe to sort out ( another 2 hours) as it is full of junk, clean the cooker and also do my nets and windows.

How the fudge do people manage to keep a nice, clean and tidy home.

No doubt by next week my house will be back to square one.

OP posts:
quoteunquote · 12/10/2013 21:48

TrueStory sorry I didn't see your question.

The Amish think us (non amish) most cruel and unkind to our children because we wait on them hand and foot, then suddenly expect them to be able to cope with running all aspects of life,

An Amish toddler, is given the great privilege of the responsibility of keeping the kindling box full, if and only if they do that job justice, they might be allowed to stack the wood, or sweep the path,

You are only allowed responsibility for a task if you always carry it out perfectly, without input from others, that includes being reminded or supervised.

It is a massive honour to be trusted with an essential task, so as a child ages they want to be allowed to do the next job up, so as to be recognised as capable.

I was raised by Quaker feminists, we lived in remote parts of Asia (Hebrides,up mountains,amish communities,war zones) , where all children contribute from the moment they can walk,

my children have from the moment they could walk, wanted to be allowed to join in any group effort going,

I would never say to a toddler who has been scrubbing a cupboard front with some (ecover) soapy water, oh well done darling, if it wasn't perfect, I would ask if they could see any bits they had missed, and let them rectify it, that way they get genuine self satisfaction in their achievement, false praise is rude, demoralising and insulting, it tells the receiver you don't think they are capable of better, and they will never trust your judgement again.

watch one, do one, teach one is how you learn in this house,

People tend to only do special cooking (cakes) with their children, mine from the start are involved with every meal, to be allowed the massive privilege of the use of ingredients,it is an honour only bestowed on the highly accomplished, it's a huge responsibility, they have to convince us of their abilities, before they can have access to precious food.

They have all cooked solo from a young age, far surpassed my abilities quite sometime ago. It's considered the highest honour to feed the household.

All children can easily sort laundry, identify what fabric requires what care, untangling arms on shirts if they have the reasoning explained at the time of watch one, do one, teach one.

Always explain the reasoning behind any process, nothing should be a mystery.

Because they are always involved in all tasks, they like any adult just naturally do things as they go, from the little things like emptying their pockets, doing up zips, as they put items in the hamper, because they know it will make later actions easier.

We are a very active family, we would rather be out climbing, surfing, doing stuff, if everyone didn't muck in naturally, then the time and energy would not be available to do those interesting things, they choose to enable our time to be used for fun stuff.

I was brought up to think it was incredibly rude to put someone in the situation where they felt they needed to address your contribution, if someone put me a position where I had harangue them to do a task, I would resent been put in that position, I don't want that relationship with anyone, let alone someone I live with, I would never want to live that way,far too stressful, we have lots of additional children, and guests, because we have a culture of joint effort they all quite naturally join in.

I was on a thread where the OP was struggling with mornings, and looking for suggestions, I suggested her children when they got in from school, get their bags and clothes ready for the following day, she couldn't even consider the possibility of a nine year old and a five year old doing such a simple task. Once you own a skill it's never hard or a bind to do, you don't notice you are doing it.

I can't imagine spending my life doing everything for able bodied people, I wouldn't want to disadvantage them, I wouldn't want them to ever feel that simple things are beyond their capabilities.

watch one, do one, teach one.

Madeyemoodysmum · 12/10/2013 23:02

I have excellent storage
Twice a year I go through all the rooms, about the rate of one room a week and de clutter tidy cupboards etc.
I don't hoard
I Hoover downstairs every day with a cordless Hoover aeg, it's amazing and my best gadget ever!
I hoover once a week upstairs with same gadget
I dust upstairs one week and clean bathroom
I dust and mop downstairs the next week.
I clean loo with bleach as soon as I see it's a bit dirty, so 2/3 times a week

I hate laundry but general sort that while kids are in bath, I always put clothes away neatly and sort wardrobes out twice a year in my declutter sessions.

I have a small ironing basket so when that's full I know there's about a hours worth of iroing there so it never gets to overwhelming.

Kids are not allowed to leave rooms in a tip and have to tidy toys they are not playing with.

I detest changing sheets so that's the one thing I know I should do more often but don't.

Sounds lot but I work part time and have a good social life so all lot of this is just down to good planning and routine and good storage.

Madeyemoodysmum · 12/10/2013 23:05

Loving QUOTES outlook, and may have to adopt some of that!

grovel · 12/10/2013 23:07

quoteunquote, I'm so glad your upbringing didn't make you smug either.

itsn0tmeitsyou · 12/10/2013 23:18
Grin
Loopylala7 · 12/10/2013 23:20

So glad I'm not alone. Often wonder why I'm so messy and friends houses are tidy...

CrockedPot · 12/10/2013 23:26

Never leave a room without picking something up to put in its place. And train everyone in the house to put shoes/coats/bags etc where they belong. My ds's make their beds every morning (aged 6 and 8, which I know will make some of you think I am a slave driver but honestly, it just involves straightening a pillow and a duvet, and having been brought up by a mother who did everything for my Db'sand expected me to do it for myself because I was a girl, I was determined not to raise my boys to think women are for waiting on them!

CrazyLottie · 12/10/2013 23:35

My house is nice and clean when my family aren't in it! When they are, I encourage them to tidy up after themselves so it's "passable". Those mothers/fathers that have to/want to work have to accept their home is always going to be a bit of a sh&thole. Make your choice.

Donkeyok · 12/10/2013 23:43

love quoteunquote Smile
you could probably write a book
no fly lady just fly children sorting it out

Im going to try "I will give you the honour of washing these dishes"
to my dc tomorrow and see if they dare to threaten to turn me into
a nag

PaperSeagull · 12/10/2013 23:50

Another thing I find really helpful is having good equipment (the best I can afford) for some of the drudge tasks. For instance, I used to hate scrubbing the kitchen floor the old-fashioned way. It took forever and it seemed to be a never-ending chore. So I invested in a steam mop. It's fast, easy, and the floor looks great.

Oh, God. Reading that back, I sound like a flipping infomercial. Blush

CrazyLottie · 13/10/2013 00:00

E-clothes are fab too. Keep one in each bathroom for a quick shine of the mirrors/taps etc.

quoteunquote · 13/10/2013 00:09

sorry grovel,

just answering the question,I was asked,

It's just a recent western thing one person running around after all the family members, I wouldn't manage it,

where I grew up, parents tend to be in the paddy fields, so children did the other stuff like holding the babies, fetch the water, firewood, cooking it's just what you did,

they would probably consider the way tasks are allocated here smug and weird,

I've had cancer over the last few years, if it hadn't been the way we do things, we would of really struggled. As my husband had not only support me, but compensate for my absents at work, keep things going for the children, and look after his mother.

A vast amount of our western children find it really hard to cope when they leave home, because they are trying to do all the required tasks, and study, quite a few universities now require that students do live away from home and do a year in industry before they start their courses,

Edinburgh and Glasgow university, spent a couple of million commissioning a study into why they were losing students,(which was costing the uni a lot of money) in the first year, students that were incredibly bright, the elite of their generation, it turns out that in order to get the required grades they had had parents that helicopter them, when suddenly they weren't eating health meals three times a day, in dirty beds, clothes, not being reminded to wash, go to the doctors, go to sleep at a reasonable time, didn't know how to shop for food, they couldn't cope. adding the year away working in industry, cut nearly all drop out rates.

Everyone does things differently, my husband raised in this country, was a child carer to his bedridden single mother, he cooked, cleaned and ran a house from a ludicrously young age, with siblings and lodgers which he had to keep the place going for, he had to structure a budget and meal plan, we still have child carers in this country, who don't get any real support. He did it almost alone. (which is horrible unfair)

We just parent the way we were brought up, just less snakes and hardship(in his case).

When my son started university, he was in a shared house of twelve, he was the only one that could cook, work a washing machine, he had a great first year, as his housemates would buy ingredient for a meal for him to cook, he saved a fortune, one of his housemates parents, made a hundred mile round trip, to deliver homemade ready meals and clean clothes every week, he is at the other end of the country we couldn't do that even if we wanted to.

Each to their own, we like to surf and do other activities, I also work (self employed so many many hours), if I had to come in and run an entire house, we would never get to the beach. We chose team work.

Out of interest how do you do things?

ILetHimKeep20Quid · 13/10/2013 00:39

Speed, vast quantities of.

KeatsiePie · 13/10/2013 00:47

quote I didn't think that was smug. Exciting to read, actually.

KeatsiePie · 13/10/2013 00:49

We also do the "little things fast" way. We have a chore chart (well Word doc actually) and mostly stick to it. DH spent a long time dusting and vacuuming the living room and vacuuming out the couch and so on today, and it sucked for him b/c he hadn't done it in ages. But normally it doesn't take him long b/c it hasn't been long since it was last done.

passedgo · 13/10/2013 00:56

Quoteunquote the Amish way is very interesting.

I was brought up in a household where we just wanted to help. We knew when my parents were under pressure and just plain helped. Sometimes they asked, sometimes we just did it of our own accord. I have found it hard to pass that on to my children but I guess it comes from their father - who always had a mother doing everything for him when he was younger.

I do agree that false praise is not helpful, it builds up a false confidence. You see the difference when there is real pride and quite often it shows when children do something completely autonomously (or so they think). When they own the task they seem to get so much more from it.

In the meantime, perhaps we need some Amish parenting classes / childrens boot camps?

VillandraMcTavish · 13/10/2013 08:34

Quote, your way is how I was brought up, only in a vastly different setting: it was thought a huge inconvenience and something of a shameful act to behave in such a way that people needed to compensate for your shortcomings. (Our family was lightly Presbyterian.)

You reminded me of it completely with the sentence about pulling out twisted arms before putting the washing on. When I started living with dh, I was astonished that he would not do this, and gave him a bit of a lecture! He in turn was astonished that anyone would care about that. So if I was doing the washing or hanging up, I just left the arms in and they got all damp and smelly (basement flat) which soon made him see... Unfortunately he has always had a lot of helicoptering from various sources so it isn't hard-wired in the way it is with me.

I'm inspired by your posts to try a LOT harder to ingrain some of this in ds. It really really matters to not let things slide and expect other people to pick up your lack of self-care.

ThePearShapedToad · 13/10/2013 09:24

quote I didn't think your post sounded smug, it sounded like good old fashioned common sense and a healthy childhood

I think more people should instill parts of that attitude into their children

unlucky83 · 13/10/2013 10:29

I was interested n the university thing quote...current disagreement with my DP about DD1 (12 - 2nd yr high school) -I'm trying to make her take more responsibility for herself - after talking with a mother of a child who went off to uni a year or so ago ...
DD1 is learning cooking at school - and I encourage her to cook dinner etc for everyone (things like chow mein, lentil soup etc)- if it isn't as good as it could be I (gently) tell her where she has gone wrong...how she could improve it...I also am getting her to help me more ...(I remember cutting my finger (it got infected) on a tin at my grandmothers when I was 8-9 - it was a tin of peas (less freezers around then) ...so I must have been helping/making a meal ... )
Dp thinks I'm being lazy 'expecting' her to cook ...
He also thinks I should 'make' her brush her teeth - I do remind her sometimes but I am not going to stand over her while she does ...
She doesn't do anything else around the house - I am trying to work on that...
But the big thing - and you didn't mention it - was I am not standing over her making her do school/home work ...I do gentle reminders and try to help her be organised etc - but I am not forcing her to study/checking she is doing all her homework/she has all her stuff ready for school...
She just got a report with 'unsatisfactory' for homework in 2 subjects- DP thinks we failed - I'm hoping I'm not making a mistake and she has learned something...
(As my friend said - you can't do the exams for them...)
I think that is another problem for Universities - children/young adults who can't take responsibility for their own learning/study...

IHaveA · 13/10/2013 11:04

I think it is more to do with attitudes than actually teaching them to do things. We have always had cleaners and maids when we lived abroad so my children haven't spent hours helping around the house although they were always responsible for their own 'mess' and for helping out when needed.

My two eldest boys are at Uni and didn't find it hard to look after themselves because, well, it isn't exactly rocket science is it! Both have the cleanest rooms in their flats and both keep 'their' bits of the kitchen spotless. As for cooking, none of my kids are elaborate cooks but as long as you put a little effort in it is not exactly complicated to cook healthily.

quoteunquote · 13/10/2013 11:10

thanks, I only realised quite late on (eldest is 22) that the way we do things is not the norm here, because both husband and I had done it that way as a children,

The Amish were always quite adamant, it was massively disadvantage children not to ease them into work, from the start, they thought you were ruining your child's life.

To be trusted to chop and stack wood was a huge honour, one of my friends was so desperate to be allowed she would get really cross with me for sitting on the wood pile, in case we were spotted, and it thought disrespectful to her siblings work.

I think children like to feel in control of their surroundings, there shouldn't be any mysteries,

children do get a sense of pride when they can tackle a job unaided,

There isn't really a job around the home that a child can't do, once they know the thinking behind the task, they want to own it. They get quite insulted if you interfere, as any adult would, if you took over a task they were doing.

It's interesting the Presbyterian way is similar, my strict scottish baptist friends, when I was growing up, had similar, except the roles were gender divided (that fascinated me, I couldn't get my head around it), the buddhist just get on with it, my friends only ever got in trouble, if an adult had to prompted them into doing a task, so we always would race through the chores, and drag babies with us while we played, children also took care of the elderly, while parents were working. the elderly would be the ones to comment on quality control of work.

FortyDoorsToNowhere · 13/10/2013 11:16

I work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday 7-3. Monday I do a course on Austrian to help with my ASD child.

OP posts:
stinkingbishop · 13/10/2013 11:21

My house was Elle Deco beautiful when a) I had a grown up DS rather than twin toddlers b) it was big enough for everything to have a place, and for everything to be in its place c) all of us were out during the day at work/school d) I paid someone else to do it.

Now, not so much...used to bother me. But it's hygienic, and safe, and I just have to live with it. It's not going to be lovely again for years.

ShabbyButNotChic · 13/10/2013 11:25

I found that once the house looks nice, i want to keep it that way, so i started off with a full on clear out and clean. Took me about 2weeks but i did have a load of shit once it was sorted, we bought extra storage so everything had a place. Eg in the box room shit room we bought some shelving units and storage boxes.

Day to day we just keep on top of things, so the washing up is done straight away, things are put away once used, we have a whizz round for 5mins before bed. Then on a sunday morning we do bigger jobs.
This morning i have changed the bed, polished upstairs, cleaned the bathroom, changed towels, and will vac upstairs next. Dp has cleaned the kitchen, emptied all the bins and run the vac round downstairs. Takes about an hour. Then we forget about it til next sunday.

For me the key is routine, and having a place for things.

oliveoctagon · 13/10/2013 11:25

Hardly own anything