To ditch the idea of Grammar as DD isn't good at maths?

[ICameOnTheJitney]

despite the fact that she's extremely good at literacy? She's in year 5 and one of the youngest but just flew through a test paper for verbal reasoning in literacy but the maths made her go

I COULD get a tutor couldn't I....she's "ok" in maths but finds it a struggle...her grade is as expected for her age....but she'd need a BIG leap in the coming year.

Considering we have excellent state secondarys here shall I just forget Grammar or put her through a year's worth of hothousing?

The reasons for yesterday's headlines occur waaaaaay before they start secondary school.Many secondary schools are left to pick up the pieces.

I would want to avoid that too, and as I say, I totally see why, if one lived in a grammar area, that's where one would want one's children to be, if they seemed academically inclined (I wish I hadn't started down the 'one' route in that sentence: it sounds very pompous, but hey ho, it's done now... )

I just don't think that ought to, or needs to, entail a particular attitude about comprehensives in comprehensive areas.

I've been thinking about the reasons my girls have ever had phases of unhappiness at school, and reasons other children have ever been bullied, that I've known of. They include; new and charismatic child moving in and altering established friendships; new groups in setting shifting friendship groups; changes in relationships with friends from primary; having a parent who is known in the community for having ruffled feathers among other parents and children (that one's not one of mine ; being late every day; being a traveller... and some general personality issues/clashes. It's a lot more complex that grrrr we hates you cos you're good at maths.

TheOriginalSteamingNit and Curlew
I don't think that my daughter will get particularly higher grades from her grammar school than from a good comprehensive. I agree that academic children will generally do well anywhere (as an anecdote of one, I got all As from a comprehensive school in the days when that was much, much rarer)

However, I do believe that her journey to those high grades will be happier in a community of other very academic children. I also think she will benefit later in life from not defining herself as 'the clever one' and struggling when she is not the clever one any more - or when that isn't enough. Based on the teachers I have met, I believe that she is more likely to be exposed to ideas well beyond what is required to go well beyond what is needed to tick off those A*.

(by the by - yes, virtually all the girls in her school get virtually all A/A. About a third get 9-11 A. But it's more selective than a county-wide grammar school system would be)

I and my dp went to dreadful comps,Dp's was the worst comp in his area.Both of us were bullied for being swots(I had the entire contents of my pencil case snapped and set on fire over a Bunsen burner).Happy days. Bulling for working hard and being bright happens.I also went too a very academic school(no grammar in the area) with the exact reverse where working hard was celebrated.

My dc will not be experiencing the same thing hence my making sure they go to the right school for them.

On visiting our local grammar it was clear the vast maj of kids were geeky and on speaking to staff and parents in the community it is clear that celebrating working hard,achievement at all levels and supporting each other in order to achieve is key.

Still have a lot more research to do but as it stands it looks favourable for my swotty child who gets anxious if he is working with chidren who don't have his work ethic,isn't stretched and is unable to get on and work.Maybe though being surrounded by kids just like him won't neccesarily be a positive thing.Still got a year to decide.

Maybe not always being top is a good thing for these children though,maybe being average in a grammar would be beneficial?

Aaaaaaargh hate having to make life changing decisions for them!

I went to a fairly bad comprehensive too, but luckily that was a number of years ago!

As I say: if you have grammars and no comprehensives (which obviously you wouldn't), I can see why you'd be hoping for the grammar, though.

Retropear, grammar schools are full of average pupils. My very average DS is doing very well, maybe all the tutoring had paid off.

"On visiting our local grammar it was clear the vast maj of kids were geeky"

Really? A) how on earth could you tell and b) why on earth would it b a good thing to be in a school where the vast majority were anything?.

And as I keep saying, people who think there is no bullying in grammar schools are in for a big shock. Maybe cleverer children are better at subtle bullying?

Certainly didn't say there would be no bullying(there is bullying in every school) but being bullied for working hard no.That is the bullying I wish to avoid having been through it myself.

Re a high number of geeky kids,some schools attract sporty kids,some sciencey kid,some techy kids particularly if said school is given status for their strength which many do.I don't see the difference.I would never in a million years send my kids to a sporty school,don't send yours to a grammar,we'll both be happy.

But what does a "geeky kid" look like?

Sorry too hard to define.

I just saw my son in sooo many of them.Let's just say he'd fit in well.The local sporty school,not so much.

All schools differ.You pick the school with the ethos,kids atmosphere that suits yours.

"All schools differ.You pick the school with the ethos,kids atmosphere that suits yours."

Except- and this is getting repetitive- if you live in a selective area, you don't. The system decides at 10 whether your child is, for example, going to want to do 3 sciences, or a second MFL or a BTec in Health and Social Care (yes, it goes both ways).

Or, if some posters are to be believed, whether the child is to be spared the distraction of the feckless.

We're waiting for results. DD loved the process, but I am so dreading getting the results. If she "fails" I hope she copes well on Monday morning when she goes back to school and others say they've passed. I've tried to prepare her for both scenarios and she knows if she works hard she'll do well anywhere but she's going to feel disappointed, I know it.

My only reason for hoping she gets into the grammar is the fact our local comp has nearly 3000 children at it. 3000! Facilites are excellent but christ on a bike!

Just going back a bit...what Curlew said about it being a game. It totally is.

Round here (we live near one another - not mates or anything IRL though, so I am impartial) there are the parents who get tutoring, and the parents that don't. It skews the results, of course it does.

Tutoring costs a packet.
It is also an opt-in and not everyone is even aware of it.

We went along to a couple of tutor group sessions where the kids were plied with sweets every half hour, taught how to answer the questions, deal with the format, I don't know, it was definitely something that would help with the test if you could afford it.

We couldn't, and anyway I thought it sucked. The people running it were like dogs with bones...and I hated the whole thing.

Ds's friend's parent wanted ds to go for some reason, as his ds was going (didn't need to, he's very academic) and they have plenty of dosh so he offered to pay when I said we were jacking it in.

I refused - not because I don't want ds to pass, but because I hated the set up. And ds didn't enjoy it much anyway, only the sweets.

I did test papers at home with him but not very many. Because I think he wasn't that bothered, and it didn't come easily to him. It was counter intuitive to push him.

We are at the mercy of a system that will favour the cleverer children and those more familiar with the format and so on...some people can afford to pay for this, some cannot.

However well ds does, if a load of kids do better, they'll pass and he won't. It's very competitive. I hate it. I wish we lived somewhere else.

Sorry I mean the other child didn't need to go. Ds needs all the help he can get

Wrong Curlew kids from comps get into good unis too(hence my not worrying too much re tutoring). At the moment I think my son would be happier in a grammar but I don't think it'll make much odds re A level results.

Pato we can't afford to tutor so will do a bit ourselves,on looking at it it's just a bit of technique and a couple of maths topics he hasn't covered.I could give him the books and leave him to it but won't.

My dc go to a school that requires improvement and with ks2 results in the bottom quintile for everything. Personally I think th kids in Good and Outstanding schools have more of an advantage over my son than kids who have been tutored by some tutor nobody knows from Adam with buggar all teaching qualifications to their name.

Interestingly kids can and do go from the comp to the grammar to do Alevels so clearly said comp isn't that much of a disadvantage.

"Wrong Curlew kids from comps get into good unis too"

Of course they do!

It's only the "my dear.....surely not a comprehensive..." brigade who think otherwise.

"Personally I think th kids in Good and Outstanding schools have more of an advantage over my son than kids who have been tutored by some tutor nobody knows from Adam with buggar all teaching qualifications to their name."

Being at a good or outstanding primary makes no difference to whether you can jump through th 11+ hoop. Neither does the teaching qualifications of your tutor. The particular, and eminently teachable skills necessary to pass the 11+ are absolutely nothing to do with education.

Retropear said The reasons for yesterday's headlines occur waaaaaay before they start secondary school.Many secondary schools are left to pick up the pieces

So about 12-15 years ago roughly when these kids started school. But isnt' that when Blair introduced the literacy hour and there was all this talk of phonics being the magic answer to reading problems?

What went wrong?