To ditch the idea of Grammar as DD isn't good at maths?

[ICameOnTheJitney]

despite the fact that she's extremely good at literacy? She's in year 5 and one of the youngest but just flew through a test paper for verbal reasoning in literacy but the maths made her go

I COULD get a tutor couldn't I....she's "ok" in maths but finds it a struggle...her grade is as expected for her age....but she'd need a BIG leap in the coming year.

Considering we have excellent state secondarys here shall I just forget Grammar or put her through a year's worth of hothousing?

[Retropear]

Soooooo Curlew anybody can apply,they all have equal chances thus there is no issue.Problem over.

Incidentally the only poster bemoaning going to comp and missing out on something at grammar (although you don't know what exactly) is you.

[curlew]

"Soooooo Curlew anybody can apply,they all have equal chances thus there is no issue.Problem over.

Incidentally the only poster bemoaning going to comp and missing out on something at grammar (although you don't know what exactly) is you."

Right. If you read my post,you will see that I said I don't think the school a child goes to makes much difference to their chances of passing the 11+. What happens to them outside of school, however, does. Tutoring, educated engaged parents who understand the system - both of these, for example, make a real difference to the chance of passing.

And I am not talking about grammar/comprehensive. If there is a proper comprehensive school for those who don't want to/can't go to the grammar school then that's not a problem. However, in many selective areas that is not the case- it's a grammar school or a "secondary modern"

And I am not "bemoaning". I am discussing.

[curlew]

And of course you have to be top set material to pass the 11+, and there are kids you could tutor til doomsday and they couldn't pass. But if you take a bright kid, and a bright kid with supportive, educated, switched on parents who understand the system and a bright kid without those things, the first kid will pass and the second one won't.

[Retropear]

I totally disagree.

Good and Outstanding schools get results otherwise they're not Good or Outstanding.Kids that have spent 7 years in a Good or better school will have a far better chance of getting results than a child in a struggling school not producing good results.

Not sure what you mean by understanding the sytem or that gives any advantage.

Inferring that a child with parents that have bought a few Bond books(which anybody is free to do)has some advantage over a child who has spent 7 years in a Good school with high expectations and good results is daft.

[Retropear]

The fact is life isn't fair.

Children have all sorts of advantages over each other.You make the best of what you've got.

[Retropear]

It's all on the 11+ forum- book lists for your region,exam layout for your region,tips re timing,a forum.....

Anybody could go to a library if needs be and get said info.

My dad was a gardener's boy with very poor parents in service.He went to a Kent super selective grammar- a year early.Knowing my grandmother she would have made the best of what she had and got on with it for her son.She wasn't a whiner.I will do the same.

[olgaga]

Curlew, what exactly is your point in this debate?

[curlew]

My point?

To try to dispel some of the widely held myths about state selective education.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Bloody penis beakers stopping me posting last night .

Anyway - Laqueen, I don't think the gymn analogy works at all - unless all the little girls who are good at gymn will be off to a different school at 11, five days a week, for seven years. And if all their parents are saying things in your, and her, earshot like: 'I'm sure there are some excellent non-gymn schools in leafy areas, but it's not what I want for my dd. I don't want her getting smacked up the minute she gets off the .... trapeze (?).... by a child who hates gym, isn't any good at it, is uninterested in it, and resents our dds for being good at it.

(because obviously if your child failed the gymn test, she'd stop caring about gymn, and she'd hate anyone who was good at it - right?).

I also think it's rather silly to talk about playing the hand that's dealt you etc when what you're really talking about is making sure some children who started out with an ace, perhaps, are having the cards very carefully stacked in their favour before the game begins. It's not about mucking in and doing your best and rolling with the punches etc at all.

And that's all the mixed metaphors for a Thursday morning! .

[olgaga]

I don't see anyone here perpetuating "myths".

[curlew]

There's one myth to start with. The suggestion that in fully selective areas there are grammar schools and comprehensives.

A lot of people think this. It's not true. In areas where there are only super selectives, the schools everyone else goes to are "near as dammit" comprehensives. But in fully selective areas, this is not the case. There are grammar schools and high schools- what used to be referred to as comprehensives.

[PatoBanton]

Curlew is right.

Ds1 has a massive IQ (properly assessed by a dyslexia specialist who has referrals and constantly full books from all the local schools...people come to her during and after school for help with severe dyslexia (ds isn't dyslexic, officially though he has some elements of it - no help forthcoming from school, but we got him assessed).
as part of the assessment (couple of hours) his IQ was measured and came up at above 140.
This astounded me as he has never performed academically at all.

He is according to school, unlikely to pass the 11+.
He doesn't have a problem with intelligence. He does have a processing issue. Our school wasn't interested in helping him with this, so he is, effectively, written off by them.

The alternatives to grammar here, if you do not pass, are just phenomenally crap.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

No indeed: there's just a touch of the disingenuousness-es about it all, sometimes. And needless rudeness about the children who do go to comprehensives.

[curlew]

Sorry- crucial typo in my last post. It should read-

"There's one myth to start with. The suggestion that in fully selective areas there are grammar schools and comprehensives.

A lot of people think this. It's not true. In areas where there are only super selectives, the schools everyone else goes to are "near as dammit" comprehensives. But in fully selective areas, this is not the case. There are grammar schools and high schools- what used to be referred to as secondary moderns"

[PatoBanton]

I never knew that Laqueen - thankyou. The thing is the assessment was done as a favour for us because the woman is a family friend, and said she had had a lot of help from my mum with something else so she did not charge us.
Sadly though she didn't give us anything in writing either
And she is so, so busy that we didn't like to push for it.

School has never ever suggested that he get assessed by an ed psych, and I wouldn't know how to access that now. Do you know anything about that? And might it help with an appeal if he doesn't pass?

[PatoBanton]

Thankyou - I will talk to the new HT here and ask, I don't hold out much hope but it's worth a go.

[curlew]

Pato- does the school acknowledge that your child has special needs at all?

I presume you've talked to the SEN co ordinator at his school- what do they say.

I would be a bit wary of a grammar school for a child with severe processing difficulties- by definition they are often not very well geared up for dealing with special needs, and the learning is often very traditional "chalk and talk" and very fast paced, and it would be easy to be left behind. What year is he in?

[PatoBanton]

The school refuses to acknowledge that he might have any difficulties. The senco is lovely but dotty and about as much clout as a wet lettuce leaf, if you can actually find her anywhere.

He's had the 10 minute 'dyslexia test' a couple of years ago and it was just, some elements but not enough. The proper assessment too 2 hours and he was either dyslexic according to that or just immature (he was 7)

The super selective one has a SN unit - very helpful - but of course there is getting in in the first place to contend with.