To ditch the idea of Grammar as DD isn't good at maths?

[ICameOnTheJitney]

despite the fact that she's extremely good at literacy? She's in year 5 and one of the youngest but just flew through a test paper for verbal reasoning in literacy but the maths made her go

I COULD get a tutor couldn't I....she's "ok" in maths but finds it a struggle...her grade is as expected for her age....but she'd need a BIG leap in the coming year.

Considering we have excellent state secondarys here shall I just forget Grammar or put her through a year's worth of hothousing?

Blu yes...that's the thing. DD needs a LOT of support with her maths....she'll sit through a lesson...come home with homework and still need to be reminded of how to do it. I'm the same...and it takes a good while to get things to sink in. I do feel more confident about the whole thing now....I'm not sure DD will be capable of making the leap which will be needed in a year's time and I'm also not sure she will like the travel when the majority of her class will attend the local comp.

I am coming closer to just applying for the comp....the extra maths help is probably needed anyway, just to keep her on the straight and narrow.

She's a creative kid...same as I was and I'd like her to be relaxed about the transition and to know where she is going well in advance as she finds change difficult...if she knows "That's where I'm going" then she'll be much more relaxed I think about the whole transition.

I did, though. And, the setting for maths notwithstanding, I stick to it.

And when it comes to maths, I see no reason at all why the exceptionally good shouldn't work in the same room as the pretty good, just as they do in English, French and Physics.

"And when it comes to maths, I see no reason at all why the exceptionally good shouldn't work in the same room as the pretty good, just as they do in English, French and Physics."

I completely agree!

(I went to a highly selective grammar-type school, and do not think they are the be all and end all of good education!)

I think you should have a tutor for a term and see what happens. You could be describing my DD2. Same age. Similar abilities it would seem. It doesn't sound as though she is bad at maths. But not as good as at English

We also have 2 good local grammar schools. Although for us the other choices are really only just about adequate.

We are going to have a term of tutoring to see if it "clicks". Take stock in the new year.

Very interesting thread. My son just took the 11+ (everyone round here does it - well mostly) and we're waiting on results.

The difference in the schools is so so tangible though. It is very polarised.

One one end you have the grammars which are extremely competitive, very well-to-do and it's a bit like a Boden hall sale...in terms of elbows and outfits.

The non grammars OTOH are pretty poor. imo anyway - poor facilities in some, but good pastoral care and great facilities in others but terrible, terrible atmosphere and rude children.

We are anxious about it but he is one of the less academic children in his year, and though he is keen to please, he really would far rather be making something out of bits of wood, or building a camp or a fire at the end of the garden or just generally designing weapons.

We tried the 'plus club' which was really odd, (the looks I was given when we didn't want to come for the entire year were very much 'you clearly don't give a stuff about your child's future') and we only went three times. I hated it.

I'm also not impressed with one of the grammars which was right up its own arse. We haven't seen the other one yet.

I want him not to be written off. But I don't want him stuck somewhere that will judge him relentlessly and assume he is rubbish because he isn't academic. The decision is almost impossible and it is in the main taken out of our hands here.

ICameOnTheJitney

Just for a moment forget the schools.

Is dd happy? Is she having a happy childhood? Hopefully you have answered yes.

Now would she continue to have a happy childhood being tutored? In a selective school? In a comp?

You can get qualifications and continue with education at any age. You get one childhood.

she gives her ALL to the subjects she's passionate about (art, drama and Literature) and everything else can go hang

How do the grammars feel about drama and art? If those are her passions but she can only do 30 mins art every 2 weeks and no drama how will she feel?

Not everyone suits the education system we have, go look at the schools, are the children happy.

Something I heard on the radio this morning - ignore ofstead, hang around at leaving time, if you are crushed in the rush it is not a good school (obviously someone's opinion but I liked the thinking).

You need to be careful about how you approach your daughter with this, OP.

I was in the same boat; great at literacy, not so great at maths. Tbh, it was a combination of an extremely overbearing father and a horrid teacher that made it so, perhaps a bit of help in the way of an understanding tutor would have made all the difference.

Not in my case though, my father totally wrote me off as useless, didn't get me any extra help and I didn't sit the 11+.

I still think I'd have benefitted from a tutor. Even if I'd failed the exam, I'd have gained confidence in a shaky subject.

My eldest daughter went to a super-selective grammar. She was tutored for the maths element of the 11+, although not hot-housed as she was very able anyway (primary school simply did not teach maths to the required level).

She loved it, and it was right for her. However, we did come across some students who had been hot-housed for the 11+, and whilst a number of them were OK, there were others who struggled and would perhaps have been happier in the top sets of a good comprehensive.

One other drawback for us was that the grammar she went to (and it was the nearest one) was almost 20 miles away. It meant leaving home just after 7.00am and getting back between 5.00 and 6.00pm, so a very long day, with homework on top. 7 years of that took their toll. She tended to get very tired and was ill much more often than her younger sisters.

We chose grammar for her in part because of her ability and in part because our local comprehensive had been struggling for a few years. It had just appointed a new headteacher (I am talking back in 2006-ish, when my daughter was transferring to secondary school). Seven years on now, and our local comprehensive has been turned around. It is very much on the up. Our two younger girls have not gone the grammar school route. It would not have been suitable for my middle daughter anyway (more practical than academic). My youngest could probably have done well at the 11+, but since we were now happy with the local school she has gone there. She is in top sets and very happy.

My children are a case in point for those who point out that whilst grammar suits some children, it does not suit others. There are many, many factors to take into account. Visit all potential schools with your daughter, including the grammar. See what you both feel then. I too think that you really already know what your gut feeling is, and there is something to be said for a shorter schoolday, locally and with good local friends. It isn't all about academia. It is also about balance, which I don't think we had enough of with my eldest daughter.

So people put up with the whole unfair, stressful socially divisive system so that a few exceptionally able mathematicians get to do GCSE in year 8?

One thing to check with whatever comps you look at - if your child is much stronger in some areas and weak in another (esp English v maths) is that the school sets and doesn't stream. The terms seem to be being used somewhat interchangeably in this thread, but there can be a big difference. I know a boy who went to an 'excellent' comp - where other children I know go and thrive - but it was a disaster for him because he was weak at maths and so put in a low stream for everything. He ended up being sent to a private school and going down a year to catch up, which was pretty drastic.

LaQueen we can't afford to buy a house at all! We rent...in a naice catchment. We COULD have gone for broke and bought in a shitty area. We'd rather have the instability of rental and a good catchment.

Just down the road...well 2 or 3 miles away, the comps are Bad....with a capital T. We could buy there...or even rent there and have more holidays. Not going to happen.

I'd rather stay put.

When do you have to apply for the Grammar school?

Could you try a tutor for a few months to see how your DD gets on and then make a decision?

Yes...I don't need to apply till spring. I've written it down and can't remember but I think it's May so I do have a bit longer.

My daughter was not the most able mathematician at her grammar school. She was perfectly good enough, and still got an A* in her GCSE when her teacher had previously bemoaned the fact that he thought she would "only" get a B. My daughter was annoyed by that comment, so she set out to prove him wrong. She excelled with greater ease at just about everything else.

I said in my other post on this thread that I did have one or two reservations about my daughter going to the grammar school, but it was not because I saw it as socially divisive. It was much more a practical issue for us (distance and cost of travel), plus the fact that it is not suitable for every child, even sometimes from the same family (as in the case of my own children).

In areas where there are still grammar schools it is an additional choice available to parents who feel their children might be capable. It is perfectly legitimate.

Children who are not suited to grammar schools for any reason at all should not be "hot-housed" through the 11+ because their parents want the kudos of saying that their child has gained a place at X grammar school. That is unfair to the child and can make for an unhappy few years.

It really depends on the school.

DD1 is at a superselective.

Unlike many grammars, they are not required to do triple science at GCSE. There is no particular kudos to doing further maths, over, art, say. They are all encouraged to do the subjects they enjoy and will excel at.

But, from talking to friends, and going to open days, I realise that this is far from the norm in selective schools.

"Personally, I would rather my DDs were at school with peers who had been selected for their academic ability, regardless of their socio- economic back ground"

Well, if that's what actually happened you may have a point, but the socio economic background of kids at grammar schools tends to be very similar to those at the "leafy" comprehensives.

And for people in most grammar school areas, the presence of the grammar school means there is no comprehensive to send their child to.

I live within catchment for Bucks grammars and Berks comprehensives. They introduced a new 'tutorproof' test this year. Everyone I know who sat the exams last month had been heavily tutored which makes a mockery of the new exam.

The socio-economic background of those passing the test for admission to our local grammar is very wealthy indeed and no different to the local private schools. There is the added pressure too of external tutoring, actively encouraged by the grammar school to ensure they maintain their place in the league tables.

Other than the girls school the local comp results are poor, hence the pressure to get places in the local grammar.

I'm glad that ds won't be moving schools at 11 so we don't have to deal with this nonsense.

LaQ - there are still a few areas where there is a full GS system, in those places the others are 'secondary moderns' not comps. In my own county, there's very few so the effect is diluted.